Nordkapp H20

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jbv
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Nordkapp H20

Post by jbv »

Nordkapp chats must bore some of you silly at this point but it is a very uncommon boat in Canada.
not sure if the H2O nomenclature has been used in GB but that is what the latest Nordkapp is called, and next year the suffix is dropped and it is just the Nordkapp over here.

not many of this version in NA and perhaps none in Canada, (no Valley dealers even here) so it is hard to come by decent reviews from experienced paddlers.

the question is about it's maneuverability and storage capacity. Valley won't give any volume measurements so it is hard to compare unless you have the boat and gear to load it. big enough to comfortably pack for a week or more in cool weather? one hears about it's tracking but does it turn enough to feel 'playful', even in the rough?

i am too aware of the boat's history which is often the detail that one can readily find, there is only 1 review of this boat on a popular US based paddling website, to the NDK Explorers 30, so it's harder to draw a mental picture of the boats performance envelope.

if you have experience with this model, love or hate it, please wade in with your 2 cents. or is it 2 pence?
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

As far as I know the latest model here is still called the Jubilee. Pelagic is probably the worlds leading expert on Nordkapps and will probably know the score, now we just sit back and wait for him to appear :D

I don't know what the import implications would be for you, but I am told that Valley can still produce the older versions as custom builds (although the deck layouts may have changed).

JIM
Jon Wood
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Post by Jon Wood »

Here's the same link I posted on another thread last week:

http://www.kanu.de/nuke/downloads/Marketsurvey-SK1.pdf

The tables have weights and measures for the Nordkapp & Jubilee, as well as the Explorer et al to compare.
Not sure if someone had to fill their boat with calibrated buckets of water, or use 3-d modelling to produce the results. But as it's supplied by the German NGB I am sure the data is very reliable.

(This info was also on the now defunct ISKA site)

Afraid I can't comment on how it performs, though.

Jon
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MikeB
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Post by MikeB »

First question - what's a H20? IF it's what we call a Nordkapp Jubilee, then it all depends on what you compare it to!

In terms of it's maneuverability, the first thing NOT to do is compare the later Jubillee version to the early/original Nordkaps, especially not to the HM version with the long keel (built in permanent skeg). That went in a straight line very well, turning the thing was a different matter.

I know Valley were wanting to keep the heritage link, but realistically I think its fair to say that a Jubilee is really a somewhat different craft to the original Nordkapp except in name.

A Jubilee (H20??) with its skeg up will happily dodge around the rocks, turn, whatever you want. Skeg down in appropriate conditions and it holds a course nicely.

In terms of capacity, I found mine too small when I had one, and had to tailor my kit and packing to suit. Mind you, I like my comforts and don't beleive in this minimalistic packing philosophy! I have two friends who paddle N/k's, both seem to manage to get everything they need for a week into the boat, with room to spare. It has to be said that neither of them go big tho!

With the Quest I now have, I find I have plenty of space for the kit I want to take, (and I take a lot) and that includes a Vaude MkII which isnt the smallest of (packed) tents. As my friends will testify, I usually carry enough beer for a rugby team and sufficient emergency and repair kit to survive a world war and build at least two boats from scratch in the wilderness - LOL.

Which realistically suggests that for normal use, the N/k has ample room - for long expeditions.

I loved mine when I had it, and only changed it as I found I was too big for it physically. The N/k is a great boat though and I wish I were a size smaller (or they made a bigger one). It is an acquired taste though and (as with all things) I'd recommend not buying any boat unless you've been able to test paddle one, and then ideally for more than a few hours. Wahtever you test paddle, I'd suggest putting some weight into the thing - an empty boat won't replicate the feel of an expedition loaded boat if thats what you want to do with it.

I assume you're talking about the paddling.net site (we have it linked) - looking at it just now I think there's possibly some confusion about what's what in terms of the boats people are reviewing! Mention is made of the HS/HM - but given the dates, I'd be surprised if they are talking about "original" Nordkapps dating from the 70's.

I'm going to Alamanc this discussion so does anyone know when the Jubilee first went on the market and when the original N/k ceased production? I'm also wondering whether it's worth producing a definitive Nordkapp article with pictures, hull profiles etc to help people id what are essentially different boats with the same name.

Thoughts? Pictures? Anyone care to volunteer to produce a definitive N/k guide?? Jim / Phil?????

Mike.
Last edited by MikeB on Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jasper
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Post by Jasper »

If anyone's interested a Nordkapp HM has just appeared on ebay. I recently got one of these lovely beasts. Although I am a newbie, I find it (laden!) comfortably stable. I guess it's the secondary stability thing. I feel much happier in this on choppy water than in flatter bottomed craft I have tried. As for turning, I am taking the optimistic approach and trusting that my edging ability will improve rather quicker than it might have done otherwise!
Jon Wood
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Confused? You will be

Post by Jon Wood »

Valley’s 2006 brochure (available at the Desperate Measures website, but strangely not on Valley’s own) lists these boats:

The Nordkapp (contemporary British design, latest version)
“Designed in 1975 and used for the first kayak-rounding of Cape Horn, the Nordkapp has been used on many of the world’s toughest expeditions. This latest version features improved cockpit ergonomics and secondary stability. Perfect for the paddler seeking a fast, expedition-capable sea kayak.”

The Nordkapp Classic
Over the years there have been many version of the Nordkapp. The kayak we now refer to as the ‘Classic’ features the ocean cockpit and a round front hatch. Two options are available: standard hulled (the old HS) and the integral skegged/hard
sterned model (HM). Both are cult classics.


The Nordkapp “enthusiast” plastic boat
The most famous sea kayak in the world is now available in what is probably the best roto-moulded polyethylene (PE) construction of any manufacturer. This kayak retains the legendary Nordkapp handling and incorporates all of the features expected of an expedition-capable kayak. A rare combination of performance and value


Great River Outfitters have the 2005 brochure, this is what it says:

“NORDKAPP is undoubtedly the world’s most famous sea kayak. Recently, Valley Canoe Products produced a second generation of the Nordkapp, called the “Nordkapp Jubilee”. The design modification resulted in improving the kayak’s response to difficult sea conditions. The most recent modification of the Nordkapp, new in late 2003, is called the Nordkapp H2O. This boat is equipped with two oval hatches, front and aft and a day 7.5” hatch. It has a sharper nose, slightly lower deck on the foredeck and marginally smaller rocker at the stern producing a kayak with better tracking. What really distinguishes this kayak from many “good kayaks” is its behavior in inclement weather, especially on following seas and in beam winds. This advanced boat has lower initial stability, but excellent final stability. Two hull shapes are available: the Nordkapp M - modified hull which incorporates an integral skeg for superior tracking, and the Nordkapp S - standard hull without the integral skeg which is easier to turn, but has less directional stability. Nordkapp H2O is available with S-hull only. The latter is equipped with a retractable skeg for added versatility. The Nordkapp comes with a 29.5" keyhole cockpit (with a low rear rim) to allow the kayaker a perfect fit for superior boat control. The original ocean cockpit (20”) Nordkapp is available on special order.”

Just to muddy the waters even further, The Valley website still lists the Jubilee.

I’m going to write to Valley for some clarification, they were very helpful the last time I asked about a rare old Nordkapp.
So the H20 came out of the jubilee, but is it all change again for next year?
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

I seem to recall Phil (Pelagic) telling me he bought his Jubilee (after 20+ years in an HM - the exact time is probably in a previous thread) because Valley were about to replace the deck mould for one with Oval hatches front and back, and he (as a gnarly expedition boater when he wants to be) really wanted to stick with a small round front hatch. Now that I remember it (thanks Goeff), by unfortunate coincidence his HM was damaged at about the same time and replacement became a premature necessity and getting the old style round hatch was merely a lucky happenstance of the predicament.

Now that to me ties in timewise with what the second brochure that Jon Wood quotes says about the introduction of the H2O version, however I was not previously aware of any hull modifications done at that time, or maybe I wasn't listening closely enough to Phil...????

I still haven't got round to paddling any Jubilee, either the older one or the H2O version, but I understand that apart from being slightly wider on the waterline for better initial stability it still behaves just as a Nordkapp should and has a stern profile between the HS and HM (Classic hull) so requiring less skeg than an HS would but being more manoeuvrable than an HM.

I'm sure someone will know or be able to get the full story but I would expect the changes to be subtle and mainly oriented towards making the boats "easier" without compromising their handling - for example the lowering of the foredeck is probably necessary to get an oval hatch onto it, and lowering the back of the cockpit simply makes it easier to get in and out.

I would be very surprised to see the Jubilee (/H20) dropped from the range entirely for next year, perhaps it is hiding on a different page? Richard Cree will probably know as a Valley outlet...????

JIM
Last edited by Jim on Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbv
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no, no changes from current H20

Post by jbv »

just dropping the suffix, it is the same boat, which is the latest version, as modified from the Jubilee. i posted a question on P.net about next years due to the fact that they are going to vacuum bagging and the Nordkapp in the mentioned electronic catalogue did not have any other name to identify it. Peter Orton the new owner answered directly on the site, saying the above. based on the little i can gather, the current version is an improvement over the Jubilee in the eyes of all concerned and Valley saw no reason to change it, other than the layup spec for their 'relaunch' (my term). lastly, in the June 04 sea kayaker mag, Valley said they were going to lengthen the seat pan based on input from paddlers. not sure if they did so.
that's all i got!
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MikeB
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Post by MikeB »

This from an impecable source, with insider knowledge - might help clarify:

In 2003, in line with general product development, Valley decided to fit an oval cover to the front hatch on the Nkapp Jubilee. As US dealers had
existing stock with round front hatch they decided to "re-name" the boat
Nordkapp H2O which denotes Nordkapp hatch 2 x oval.

At the same time they fined down the nose, lowered front of cockpit area and reduced the rocker at the stern slightly.


So there you have it - the oval hatched N/k is a slightly modified Jubilee.

Mike.
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Geoff Seddon
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Post by Geoff Seddon »

As I recall and I hope Lynn doesn't see this, Phil bought the Jubilee after his venerable HM was dropped somewhere, Mull? and developed a leak in the cockpit. This is obviously life threatenning and so one is justified, purely on safety grounds, in buying a new boat. The fact that Phil is actually drawn to shiny things, is irreverent. Also is the info that after the application of a small amount of GRP the boat was in good enough condition for Jim to paddle round for a week, last easter. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story by the way. I'll be seeing Phil in the pub shortly and will give him a kick.
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

Surely Geoff has underexaggerated the amount of fibreglass and hitherto unknown composite engineering required to make the boat marginally safe enough for me to pootle around the Treshnish Isles in. If the trip didn't feature Staffa as a large central "lifeboat" I would never have dared attempt it, honest.

Dad had slightly different issues with his Baidarka, fortunately he was able to replace it with another boat the same colour which to disinterested eyes made it the same boat, as long as they were never seen together. In reality it could probably have been any colour and passed for the same boat if it was long and 'canoe' shaped, but it's always better to avoid awkward questions.

JIM
Paul Cr
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Valley at Scottish Paddlespports Festival

Post by Paul Cr »

Hi

Valley have a stand at the Paddlesports festival at the end of the month. This will be an opportunity to clarify their range. I must admit to eyeing up the Avocet and possibly the Nordkap LV. I enjoy paddling the Avocet (plain good fun), but not sure yet about its packing capability though I know people who have used them on week and weekend trips.

http://canoescotland.com/Default.aspx?tabid=235

Paul
Tim Pickering
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Post by Tim Pickering »

I am paddling an H2O and I put it next to a jubilee and it is fatter, that is to say it has more volume round the a*** and more of a u shape. We supected this was for the American market to make the boat more forgiving. I have been disapointed with its performance against the jubilee in how it handles. However that might be my paddling?

Tim
Ken R
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Post by Ken R »

Now, would that be the Tim I saw featured in an Hebrides brochure recently.

Someone actually thought it was me but I qickly corrected them, saying I was slimmer. Is that why you chose an H20 whearas I paddle the slimmer Jubilee!!!

Hope you are well Tim.

Back to the real question - I saw an entry on a website comparing the H20 with the other Nordkaps (can't find it now) but basically it agreed with what Mike has said above.

Ken
Tim Pickering
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Post by Tim Pickering »

Ha yes Ken it is and I have been putting on the beef as my wife says and will be buying a rowing boat for next years paddling season. I was pleased to get the article in the brochure and even more pleased with the stuff they made up about me ?!?

I am sure I read an article about the h2o in Sea kayaker but couldn't find it in the stack of magazines.
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