Tow lines

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OwenBurson
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Tow lines

Post by OwenBurson » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:01 pm

I am wanting to put a deck mounted tow line on my sirius, but not wanting to drill holes and wish I hadn't, has any one done this? Any advice on layout? Or any advice at all?

Owen

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Andy jacko
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Post by Andy jacko » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:39 pm


Owen
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Post by Owen » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:53 pm

Hi Owen,
Depending on the size of your cockpit combing, you can sometimes put a loop of tape (from a climbing shop about 1/2 inch width will do) around your combing. I tried this with a quick release link that could be released whilst under tension. It came off a sailing dinghy "trapeze harness" I think. My tow line clipped into this and I had a small loop of line that I could pull to drop the tow. The only problem with it was that it tended to pop my spraydeck off while towing.
Drilling holes in a fibre glass boat is not that much of a job just make sure you use big "penny washer" on the inside; there is quite a lot about tow line lay outs in the "almanac" section use the link at the top of the page.

Chris Bolton
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Post by Chris Bolton » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:21 pm

I had the same concern about drilling holes, so I drilled them into the cockpit area, and put an aluminium plate underneath, then led the line through a fairlead on a block which was glued to the deck, no holes into the compartment. See photos second from the bottom of the page on this link to the sea pages
Chris

Pete
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Post by Pete » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:01 am

Andy jacko wrote:Wacko Jacko- By the way I'm no relation of Andy Jackson the Scottish paddler, Andrew Jackson who runs Kaykojacko or Eric Jackson.
Any relation to the Prince of Pop, Micheal Jackson?

Pete
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Re: Tow lines

Post by Pete » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:02 am

OwenBurson wrote:I am wanting to put a deck mounted tow line on my sirius, but not wanting to drill holes and wish I hadn't, has any one done this? Any advice on layout? Or any advice at all?

Owen
Get your hair cut!

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Andy jacko
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Post by Andy jacko » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:59 pm

Pete wrote:
Andy jacko wrote:Wacko Jacko- By the way I'm no relation of Andy Jackson the Scottish paddler, Andrew Jackson who runs Kaykojacko or Eric Jackson.
Any relation to the Prince of Pop, Micheal Jackson?
Thankfully not!

Pete
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Post by Pete » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:18 pm

Andy jacko wrote:Wacko Jacko- By the way I'm no relation of Andy Jackson the Scottish paddler, Andrew Jackson who runs Kaykojacko or Eric Jackson.
What about that purveyor of Superbowl Smut, Janet Jackson?

CaileanMac
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Post by CaileanMac » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:25 pm

Owen,

Try out (in a controlled situation with assistance at hand) a cockpit coaming style towline in likely towing conditions i.e. when the sea is not flat. As you would with any new piece of rescue equipment.

You may find it will work it's way loose and if in short, sharp seas that unless it is constantly under load there's a chance in will ride up. When it ride's up it will suddenly end up in one place - around your waist...... Also if for any reason you capsize when towing then the load will come off your towline and if there's a metal quick release link attached to the coaming loop it will sink.... probably around you when you either wet exit or roll up.

The Northwater model is the most readily available model (only?) on the UK market and it was originally designed for the US/Candian market of calm and sheltered touring (salty + non salty water) in mind. So these problems I have outlined would not arise. These may or may not problems / issues depending on type of seas you paddle on in the UK (sheltered / moderate / rough). The majority of towing happens in conditions when people are not happy or something happens i.e. moderate / rough water.

Kayaking rescue kit is well made in terms of materials / sitching / etc but the manufacturer's have designed it with an end use in mind - so it's up to us as the end user's to decide what is the most appropriate piece of equipment for the conditions / situations we paddle in. There is not a 'ideal' or 'prefect' piece of rescue kit out there for everyone's diverse needs yet until sea kayaking takes over the global universe....may be in 2075 ;-) Asking for advice, opinions and actually trying out pieces of rescue kit in real conditions is the only way to find out. We all demo lot's of kayak and paddles but how often do we try out different piece's of rescue /safety kit before trying them - maybe this is something the retailers could offer in real conditions? A penny for anyone's thoughts?

Chris's idea for glueing the fairlead onto the deck is an ideal solution to your original request.

Regards

Cailean

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:30 pm

CaileanMac wrote:The Northwater model is the most readily available model (only?) on the UK market and it was originally designed for the US/Candian market of calm and sheltered touring (salty + non salty water) in mind.
I bought one early summer. The karabiner was corroding badly within a week, and locked up completely within the month. Lame! Clearly the nice folk at Northwater never factored in saltwater.

Otherwise, the rest of the towline is fine.
Mark Rainsley
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CaileanMac
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Post by CaileanMac » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:10 am

Mark,

You should send it back to Northwater or their UK agent - I believe its Pyranha (Tim Sadler who appears on the UKSKGB now and again) and get them to check it out.

Northwater gear is usually up to peck in terms of the karb's not giving out in salt water. Their 'guide' tow is a very well designed sea kayaking towline (waist) and the Sea-Tec range for this year has only improved it.

Regards

Cailean

Dave Thomas
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Post by Dave Thomas » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:23 am

As an aside to the original question, sea water is bad for any paddling krabs as far as I can see - a combination of salt deposits and corrosion quite quickly results in stiff or seized hinge pins on everything from towline krabs through ordinary paddle/rescue krabs to min-krabs used to clip camera into BA pocket etc.

I find the wire-gate Robson paddle krab to be the least susceptible, largely I suspect because there is less rotational movement and more elastic 'give' in the hinge.

On any krab, an occasional squirt of WD40 followed by exercising the hinge for a few seconds works wonders for the next few months.

Dave Thomas

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Douglas Wilcox
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Aluminium and salt water do not mix

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:09 am

Aluminium will always corrode in salt water and I am amazed that aluminium carabiners and aluminium foot peg tracks are found anywhere near sea kayaks. You can get very nice stainless steel carabiners in chandlers, choose ones with a very smooth end to the hook to avoid snagging on the rope.

I also use the quick release shackle which is designed for the water ski market. On a Quest you can use a snap shackle directly on the security bar. Otherwise you need to drill some holes for a U bolt. I am not scared drilling holes, I did a 1.5" one for an electric pump outlet!

Image

Image

This tow system works it is 1.5 boat lengths long, the rope is thinner than the original throwbag rope but floats. Just inside the bag there is a length of shock chord died into the rope to act as a shock absorber. Pull the little black/yellow line to quick release.

Douglas :o)

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Re: Aluminium and salt water do not mix

Post by Dave Thomas » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:22 am

Douglas Wilcox wrote:I am amazed that aluminium carabiners and aluminium foot peg tracks are found anywhere near sea kayaks.
Fair comment (re the krabs anyway - I'm not commenting on footrests) but I find I spend enough on kit already without doubling up on items like krabs for river and sea use. The WD40 trick keeps things working fine in the short term, and I have a nasty habit of losing krabs in the medium term - certainly long before general corrosion becomes serious ....

Dave Thomas

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:34 pm

Use Waxoyle on crab hinge pins - works very well. The big allow crab in my set up (as per the Almanac article was so treated at teh start of the year, never re-treated and is still smooth and free.

The stainless hook Douglas uses is also very good - I had one orioginally but wanted something bigger that fell to ahnd more easily. hence the present set-up. Mike.

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Post by Fast Pat » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:39 pm

A recent development I saw was an extension of the “clean line” now accepted within WW safety and rescue. Essentially the rope was looped through the bow decklines of the towed boat and tied off with a highwaymans hitch (or similar) next to the rescued kayaker – this allowed them to release the tow and the rope then to pull free.

Like all new ideas I’m currently experimenting with it.

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NickB
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Post by NickB » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:18 am

A recent development I saw was an extension of the “clean line” now accepted within WW safety and rescue. Essentially the rope was looped through the bow decklines of the towed boat and tied off with a highwaymans hitch (or similar) next to the rescued kayaker – this allowed them to release the tow and the rope then to pull free.
Could be a good idea, let us know if you have any problems, I assume you have added the clean line to your existing tow line so that you still have the same towing length and a Krab in the system should the towed boat not have a suitable fixing point for the hitch.
Cheers
Nick Benny

Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everybody in good society holds exactly the same opinions!

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NickB
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Post by NickB » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:20 am

I find that a quick spray with a silicon based lubricant not only removes the initial aluminium corrosion but also lends itself well to providing a good level of protection for subsequent uses.
Cheers
Nick Benny

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Fast Pat
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Post by Fast Pat » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:58 am

Nick Benny wrote:Could be a good idea, let us know if you have any problems, I assume you have added the clean line to your existing tow line so that you still have the same towing length and a Krab in the system should the towed boat not have a suitable fixing point for the hitch.
No - I have done away with a Krab altogether - after all i can always put a hitch on a bow loop in the same way that I would connect a Krab, although obviously the person being towed can no longer release. The tow line is the same length.

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Post by Dave Thomas » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:10 am

The 'recommended' way I was taught was not to clip the krab to the decklines but to pass it under the lines and clip back onto the towline itself. This is claimed to have the same effect in that the 'casualty' can (in principle) work the loop up to a sufficient size to be able to reach and release the krab. I can't say I've tried it in practice - has anyone else? It would certainly be more fiddly than releasing a highwayman's hitch, I suspect - I suppose the advantage is that it is easier for the rescuer to set up in the first place.

Dave Thomas

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OwenBurson
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Post by OwenBurson » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:55 am

Hey,
Thanks for the information guys, it has been really useful, got loads to think about and try.

In particular:
Get your hair cut!


Was that a general comment, or do you know me from somewhere?

Owen

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:09 pm

Try setting up a Highwayman's in a big, lumpy sea, in a hurry. You'll wish you had a crab. Trust me.

Dave - yes - if you have enough clear line between the hook and a float, it works just fine.

Mike.

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Post by Fast Pat » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:43 pm

MikeB wrote:Try setting up a Highwayman's in a big, lumpy sea, in a hurry. You'll wish you had a crab. Trust me.

Mike.
Its actually easier than you think if you use big loops and pull one through the other - with practice you can even do it one handed - try it you'll be surprised - I too shared the same concern, not any more.

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Zoe Newsam
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Post by Zoe Newsam » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:29 am

I use a Nigel Dennis Kayaks waist tow- cheap, simple, very reliable and not too bulky. On my 5* training weekend we tested several different towing systems in rough water (North Stack race), and this came out as by far the best.

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Post by Dave Thomas » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:34 am

zoenewsam wrote:I use a Nigel Dennis Kayaks waist tow- cheap, simple, very reliable and not too bulky. On my 5* training weekend we tested several different towing systems in rough water (North Stack race), and this came out as by far the best.
I use a waist tow as well. Advantage for me: avoids having to contort my body (not as flexible as it used to be - and that's not saying much!) to reach behind in order to deploy the line - or indeed to release it in an emergency.

But one does need a pretty effective shock absorber in the line!

Dave Thomas

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Andy jacko
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Post by Andy jacko » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:15 pm

Pete wrote:
Andy jacko wrote:Wacko Jacko- By the way I'm no relation of Andy Jackson the Scottish paddler, Andrew Jackson who runs Kaykojacko or Eric Jackson.
What about that purveyor of Superbowl Smut, Janet Jackson?
No!

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