Sea kayak for big men?
Sea kayak for big men?
I'm 6'6" and 18.5 stone. I currently paddle a Prijon Kodiak( which is only just big enough) but am now looking for a glass boat. Who makes a big mans glass sea kayak? I have looked everywhere and sat in a few, but all have been too small.
Help me please! I want one for the summer!
Help me please! I want one for the summer!
- seismicscot
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Wes Boyd has a load of info, albeit with a N. American bias, on his website:
http://www.kayakplace.com/bigguy/bigskart.htm
Cheers,
Clark
http://www.kayakplace.com/bigguy/bigskart.htm
Cheers,
Clark
Clark Fenton
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Island kayaks
Thanks very much everyone. I have checked out the Explore 4 site and am very inerested in the Expedition..... cheap too!
- seismicscot
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Hi guys,
I have a demo version of the 2005 Island Expedition boat, which you can always try if you'd like. I'm based in Dorset, if it's any help PM me and we can arrange something. It's definately a boat that will suit a larger paddle, and handles like a dream. The 2005 boat finally addresses some of the cockpit design issues with the older boats.
For any Poole Harbour CC guys lurking on this one, I'm planning on getting the demo out on the water this coming wednesday night - if anyone wants to paddle it, give me a shout.
Bertie..
I have a demo version of the 2005 Island Expedition boat, which you can always try if you'd like. I'm based in Dorset, if it's any help PM me and we can arrange something. It's definately a boat that will suit a larger paddle, and handles like a dream. The 2005 boat finally addresses some of the cockpit design issues with the older boats.
For any Poole Harbour CC guys lurking on this one, I'm planning on getting the demo out on the water this coming wednesday night - if anyone wants to paddle it, give me a shout.
Bertie..
Since no one else has mentioned it...........a NDK Explorer HV does the trick for me.
I'm 6ft 2, 15st+ and I need to pad the Explorer out!
I appreciate its all very personal, but for me the Explorer does everything I want from it.
Chances are there’ll be a few demo boats for sale after the Anglesey symposium.
I'm 6ft 2, 15st+ and I need to pad the Explorer out!
I appreciate its all very personal, but for me the Explorer does everything I want from it.
Chances are there’ll be a few demo boats for sale after the Anglesey symposium.
British Columbia - off out in September, read about a trip from Tofino to Hot Springs cove from where you can take a sea plane back (kayaks strapped to the outside). Plus desolation sound looks amazing.Money no object
Closer to home - I fancy Llandudno/Conwy to Abersoch around Anglesey along the way............probably not going to fulfil the "sunshine criteria".
Gavin
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Island Expedition
I have recently bought a 2004 spec Island Expedition after demo-ing one of Richard Cree's at Explore 4. I am 6'2, 190lbs and wear rather fetching size 12 green wellies and the boat accommodates me no problem, plenty of leg room and a comfortable cockpit.
The boat handles very well and is a joy to turn though does need a bit of skeg to keep it on track, especially in quartering seas. It is very stable and easy to get over on its side for turns but the thing which has surprised me most about it is how quick it is. You will have no problem keeping up with the group in this boat on day trips and expedition work. There is also plenty of stowage space for gear. As an allround expedition sea kayak for medium to larger paddlers this is a great boat and at £1100 for last years model, great value.
Thanks to Richard at Explore 4 for the extended demo. Happy paddling.
The boat handles very well and is a joy to turn though does need a bit of skeg to keep it on track, especially in quartering seas. It is very stable and easy to get over on its side for turns but the thing which has surprised me most about it is how quick it is. You will have no problem keeping up with the group in this boat on day trips and expedition work. There is also plenty of stowage space for gear. As an allround expedition sea kayak for medium to larger paddlers this is a great boat and at £1100 for last years model, great value.
Thanks to Richard at Explore 4 for the extended demo. Happy paddling.
- seismicscot
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As promised here are my thoughts on the Island Expedition:
I recently demo-ed the Expedition in tandem with the P&H Quest. The Expedition won on all counts - by a long way!
The Quest (and several other P&H boats I've seen/used recently) was very poorly finished for a boat with a £1500+ price tag. P&H really look like they have some QA problems at the moment. The new seat in the Quest is quite possibly the least comfortable kayak seat I've ever come across (the old style seat was infinitely superior).
In comparison, the cockpit of the Expedition is extremely roomy (even I would need to pad the hip and thigh area). The extra room also extends to the hatches - the Expedition has a larger cargo volume than the Quest - no need to carry that extra firewood/beer etc on the back deck!
In the handling stakes, the Expedition was significantly more manoeuvrable than the Quest (and the Quest is no real slouch). Interestingly, this agility does not compromise stability - the initial stability of the Expedition is rock solid and would only improve with a significant load in the hatches. On edge, the Expedition turns like a dream.
In a head down sprint, the Expedition is easily as fast as any other composite boat. Even with a couple of extra cms more girth than some other well kent composite boats, the Expedition is easy to paddle with a high angle paddle stroke.
The only boats I have left to demo in the UK are the Kaspian boats stocked by Shoreham. They will have to be something extra special to beat the Expedition!
Cheers,
Clark
I recently demo-ed the Expedition in tandem with the P&H Quest. The Expedition won on all counts - by a long way!
The Quest (and several other P&H boats I've seen/used recently) was very poorly finished for a boat with a £1500+ price tag. P&H really look like they have some QA problems at the moment. The new seat in the Quest is quite possibly the least comfortable kayak seat I've ever come across (the old style seat was infinitely superior).
In comparison, the cockpit of the Expedition is extremely roomy (even I would need to pad the hip and thigh area). The extra room also extends to the hatches - the Expedition has a larger cargo volume than the Quest - no need to carry that extra firewood/beer etc on the back deck!
In the handling stakes, the Expedition was significantly more manoeuvrable than the Quest (and the Quest is no real slouch). Interestingly, this agility does not compromise stability - the initial stability of the Expedition is rock solid and would only improve with a significant load in the hatches. On edge, the Expedition turns like a dream.
In a head down sprint, the Expedition is easily as fast as any other composite boat. Even with a couple of extra cms more girth than some other well kent composite boats, the Expedition is easy to paddle with a high angle paddle stroke.
The only boats I have left to demo in the UK are the Kaspian boats stocked by Shoreham. They will have to be something extra special to beat the Expedition!
Cheers,
Clark
Clark Fenton
- Mark R
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There will be a review in the next 'Paddles'. I've made a lot of use recently of the SK18 in particular - fast, responsive expedition boat. Only real downside is that due to the narrow tapered ends, hull storage space is lacking compared to some.seismicscot wrote:The only boats I have left to demo in the UK are the Kaspian boats stocked by Shoreham. They will have to be something extra special to beat the Expedition!
Very surprised to hear the Expedition is superfast at 57 cm wide.
Mark Rainsley
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Hi
My own boat is an Explorer but I paddle a Expedition fairly frequently as well. Very different boats but some similarities.
The Expedition edges like a dream and very smoothly, the NDK boat also edges well in comparison to other boats on the market. The NDK cockpit is different from other manufactuers and some people love it and other loath it. Chunky thigh braces and long/narrow.
The Explorer handles better than the Expedition without any skeg but the Expedition (no skeg) is more responsive whether on a edge or not. In terms of storage the Expedition wins hands down but is that what you are after?
When it comes down to it - try and demo both boats if possible. Also your overall weight / body 'frame' and paddling aspirations might well be the deciding factor.
Cailean Mac :-)
My own boat is an Explorer but I paddle a Expedition fairly frequently as well. Very different boats but some similarities.
The Expedition edges like a dream and very smoothly, the NDK boat also edges well in comparison to other boats on the market. The NDK cockpit is different from other manufactuers and some people love it and other loath it. Chunky thigh braces and long/narrow.
The Explorer handles better than the Expedition without any skeg but the Expedition (no skeg) is more responsive whether on a edge or not. In terms of storage the Expedition wins hands down but is that what you are after?
When it comes down to it - try and demo both boats if possible. Also your overall weight / body 'frame' and paddling aspirations might well be the deciding factor.
Cailean Mac :-)
- seismicscot
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Mark,
A centimetre either way makes very little difference in ultimate hull speed. The 5 m length of the Expedition is what gives it its speed.
Short explanation:
Length (length of water line) rather than width is the controlling factor in determining speed in displacement hulls, thus:
hull speed (Vk) = [square root (LWL in feet x 0.3034)] x 2.5
Longer explanation:
Although sea kayak design is based on the premise that a long, narrow hull is faster than a wider hull of similar length. This is only true if you are moving at speeds approaching the theoretical hull speed of the boat (which is dictated by the length of the boat). Hull speed is a function of the wave length generated by a boat; longer boats generate longer waves allowing greater speed. Generating a wave by moving a boat through water requires an input of energy (from the paddler); and, the mass of the wave generated is governed by the width of the boat (actually the width of the midship cross section). Thus, a narrower hull produces a smaller wave, requiring less energy, allowing more energy to be expended in making the boat go forward. The wave-making resistance factor becomes negligible in very narrow hulls, which is why catamarans are so fast.
However, all of this is only true when a boat approaches theoretical hull speed, which most paddlers never achieve, and certainly never on a cruise or outing with a heavy load of gear on board. When boats travel well below hull speed, the greatest resistance they must overcome is simple friction, which is a direct function of wetted surface (total area of a boat submersed in water). This where the narrow sea kayak begins to lose its advantage. The factor which comes into play here is the ratio between displacement and wetted surface. Displacement in a boat is measured by calculating the volume of boat below the waterline, times the weight of water. If the total weight of two boats plus their paddler and gear are the same, but one boat is narrower than the other, the narrower boat will have more wetted surface. This is because volume increases at an exponential rate, while surface area increases at a mathematical rate, when beam is increased. With more surface area, at low speeds significantly more energy will be required to overcome this added penalty of friction drag.
The bottom line, of course, is actual speed attained under paddle, which for most paddlers is about 66% of hull speed. For this reason, the lower wetted surface of the wider boat will require less energy to move when loaded down for an extended journey.
Sorry for being so long-winded (the perogative of a university lecturer?), but I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Clark
A centimetre either way makes very little difference in ultimate hull speed. The 5 m length of the Expedition is what gives it its speed.
Short explanation:
Length (length of water line) rather than width is the controlling factor in determining speed in displacement hulls, thus:
hull speed (Vk) = [square root (LWL in feet x 0.3034)] x 2.5
Longer explanation:
Although sea kayak design is based on the premise that a long, narrow hull is faster than a wider hull of similar length. This is only true if you are moving at speeds approaching the theoretical hull speed of the boat (which is dictated by the length of the boat). Hull speed is a function of the wave length generated by a boat; longer boats generate longer waves allowing greater speed. Generating a wave by moving a boat through water requires an input of energy (from the paddler); and, the mass of the wave generated is governed by the width of the boat (actually the width of the midship cross section). Thus, a narrower hull produces a smaller wave, requiring less energy, allowing more energy to be expended in making the boat go forward. The wave-making resistance factor becomes negligible in very narrow hulls, which is why catamarans are so fast.
However, all of this is only true when a boat approaches theoretical hull speed, which most paddlers never achieve, and certainly never on a cruise or outing with a heavy load of gear on board. When boats travel well below hull speed, the greatest resistance they must overcome is simple friction, which is a direct function of wetted surface (total area of a boat submersed in water). This where the narrow sea kayak begins to lose its advantage. The factor which comes into play here is the ratio between displacement and wetted surface. Displacement in a boat is measured by calculating the volume of boat below the waterline, times the weight of water. If the total weight of two boats plus their paddler and gear are the same, but one boat is narrower than the other, the narrower boat will have more wetted surface. This is because volume increases at an exponential rate, while surface area increases at a mathematical rate, when beam is increased. With more surface area, at low speeds significantly more energy will be required to overcome this added penalty of friction drag.
The bottom line, of course, is actual speed attained under paddle, which for most paddlers is about 66% of hull speed. For this reason, the lower wetted surface of the wider boat will require less energy to move when loaded down for an extended journey.
Sorry for being so long-winded (the perogative of a university lecturer?), but I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Clark
Clark Fenton
- seismicscot
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- Mark R
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Well, I refer you once more to 'Paddles' next month...but to summarise, we couldn't find any problems with the build quality. The costs have been saved in fairly naff internal fittings (easily customisable or replaceable) and in things like untied decklines and hatch covers.seismicscot wrote:Mark,
What do you think of the Kaspian SK18? My wife was talking to a Pyranha/P&H rep last weekend at the Brookbank demo day and he was bad-mouthing Kaspian boats for their lack of quality/poor finish. Obviously he hasn't looked too closely at his own boats recently!
You could always ask Shoreham themselves...I think they do look in here, as do Pyranha/ P&H and others.
Mark Rainsley
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I doubt if he has actually looked at one of the Kaspian boats either! I'd be very interested to know where he thinks he saw one. So far there are only a few in this country, and I know where they all are. Anyone with doubts regarding Kaspian's quality is very welcome to come and see for themselves.Mark,
What do you think of the Kaspian SK18? My wife was talking to a Pyranha/P&H rep last weekend at the Brookbank demo day and he was bad-mouthing Kaspian boats for their lack of quality/poor finish. Obviously he hasn't looked too closely at his own boats recently!
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That's a fair laymans interpretation Clark, a few mistakes but nothing much worth picking up on except - where did you get the idea that a wider boat has a smaller surface area for a given volume? The boat with sections that are nearer to semicircular will have the least surface area for any given volume, whether that is a wider boat or a narrower boat depends on the shape of the sections. Of course hull shape depends on draft so some boats might approximate semicircular sections lightly loaded and others when heavily loaded. For your final statement to be true the narrow boat must be drawing more than half it's breadth and the wide boat close to half it's breadth - quite a plausible solution but I have no evidence to determine whether or not it is true!
JIM
JIM
- seismicscot
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Jim,
I must have been boring even myself at that point - I should have added that in this generic argument that narrow = v-profile and wide approximates semi-circular profile, the latter having the lowest surface area/volume ratio!
See what happens when you step out of your area of expertise! Thanks for the peer review ;o)
Cheers,
Clark
I must have been boring even myself at that point - I should have added that in this generic argument that narrow = v-profile and wide approximates semi-circular profile, the latter having the lowest surface area/volume ratio!
See what happens when you step out of your area of expertise! Thanks for the peer review ;o)
Cheers,
Clark
Clark Fenton
- seismicscot
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Pete,I doubt if he has actually looked at one of the Kaspian boats either! I'd be very interested to know where he thinks he saw one. So far there are only a few in this country, and I know where they all are. Anyone with doubts regarding Kaspian's quality is very welcome to come and see for themselves.
My feeling is that P&H are worried that there are now manufacturers such as Island and Kaspian turning out composite boats for 2/3 of the cost of what they are offering.
My wife is still looking for a boat, so we may take a trip down to Shoreham to try out the Kaspian boats soon.
Cheers,
Clark
Clark Fenton