For when it all go's wrong

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James Hartley
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For when it all go's wrong

Post by James Hartley » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:33 am

In an ideal world you'd have as part of your first aid/trauma kit;
spine board
nec loc collars (various sizes)
dressings, bandages, slings
AED
needle and thread for stiching wounds
anaesthetic, (local and general)
Full range of cardio drugs
range of antobiotics, anti viral drugs
morphine
X-ray equipment
fully trained doctor with crash team
shelters
blonde buxom nurse
full surgical team
various sized airways (oral and nasal)
laerdal pocket face mask
free flow oxygen
burns dressings
bag mask and valve
helicopter on stand by for rapid extracation to hospital
tough cut shears
splints and cast making equipment for broken bones
plasters
tape

Obviously this isn't possible, after all you've got to be able to carry it easily in your boat, and more importantly know how to use what you carry and be confident with it, this list will vary from person to person depending on the level of training that they've had, but what do you carry? and what should you carry? I have my own views but would be interested in yours
The more apparently complex an act, the more vital it is to search until you find its inner simplicity
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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:39 am

Dr Andy Watt has a few things to say in this area, from the overseas expedition point of view...

http://www.rgs.org/PDF/30%20ch%2029.pdf
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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:49 am

Just a postscript - read through the bit in that document on shoulder relocations. The diagrams made me wince, but is the only clear thing I've seen/ read about this.
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guy
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top tip

Post by guy » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 am

that is a great article on expedition first aid
I saw from the front page you have a new article on planning an expedition (although I havn't read it)
I hope this article gets a mention there

marv_mcd

any ideas for a first aid course

Post by marv_mcd » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:28 am

Hi,
Can anybody recommend a decent first aid course in the South West?
Cheers,
Martin

jay'

Post by jay' » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:24 am

What is the URL for the index to this book?

Steve B
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Re: any ideas for a first aid course

Post by Steve B » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:58 pm

marv_mcd wrote:Hi,
Can anybody recommend a decent first aid course in the South West?
Cheers,
Martin
Don't know, but what I would say is do try and get on a BCU one. I've done Red Cross, St John Ambulance, Pool Lifeguard and BCU Aquatic First Aid at various times in the past, and the BCU syllabus is definitely the best.

Pool lifeguard is also very good and extremely relevant, but long, expensive and doesn't cover outdoor stuff.

No doubt a phone call or email to the BCU would put you in touch with local course providers.
Steve Balcombe

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:24 pm

jay' wrote:What is the URL for the index to this book?
You need this page from the Expedition Advisory Serive...

http://www.rgs.org/templ.php?page=5expepub

I did include the RGS in my articles, but not the specific page...

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/beyondthealps1.htm
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/beyondthealps2.htm

For my sins, I am a member of the BCU Expeditions Committee (easiest job I ever took on) and offered several times to either put Slime's old expedition planning notes online, or to rewrite them up to date myself. As it happens, he has now rewritten them anyway for the new RGS Expeditions Handbook (linked from the page above) and by coincidence, that chapter is available freely online. Very useful, along with Andy Watts' stuff.
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ERU
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Post by ERU » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:41 pm

I just use good old Duct Tape :P

rich @ sweetspot

first aid course

Post by rich @ sweetspot » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:14 am

hi.



sweet spot coaching runs BCU aquatic first aid courses, and we will runthem anywhere, if you are interested then check out the website



http://www.sweetspotcoaching.biz or email enquiries@sweetspotcoaching.biz



also for the first kit, can I second the addition of the buxum nurse, lol, never found her in my first aid kit, so I think I will return it to the shop and complain!!!



rich

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For when it all go's wrong

Post by Mudflap » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:46 am

There is a coaching forum on the 6th of November at Hamworthy Middle School poole, and they are running 8 hour aquatic first aid. for £10 seems like a bargin to me !

contact Regional Coaching Officer John Sutton

email: coast line@bcuinternet.com



Steve

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James Hartley
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what the?

Post by James Hartley » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:10 am

Hmm seems to have turned in to a discussion about first aid courses, still hasn't answered my original querry, you do carry first aid kitsd don't you?
The more apparently complex an act, the more vital it is to search until you find its inner simplicity
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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:57 am

Yes.

Are Gregson Packs used by folk? I accept the argument that you can just get a box/bag and stick your own stuff in it but the Gregson does provide a decent basic set of material and includes instructions.

Mine lives in a dry bag in the boat - but I also carry a couple of triangular bandages and a large wound dressing in a ziplock in my ba as a "first response".

Things I've got with me over and above the basic Gregson contents include painkillers and anti-inflamatories (for personal use!!!), extra triangular bandages, wound dressings, elastic bandage, wound-closure "butterflys", micropore tape and moleskin for blisters. Proper surgical scissors, tweezers, gloves, mouth-to-mouth "barrier device", foil survival bag, and a mini-torch. I suppose one of those air-way things would be a good idea but you need to be trained in using them.

I guess that there's a difference between the kit you need to take to run a UK river, sea-kayak in the "remote places" in UK or venture overseas into some really wild spot where you're going to be days / miles away from any proper medical help. Taking your own hypodermics and needles might be a good idea in some parts of the world - overkill to paddle in UK.

A decent First Aid course is a "very good idea". The simple "one day" ones are ok - a proper one would be better perhaps?

Should non-medical folk really be trying to deal with a dislocated shoulder in UK?? Wouldn't it be better to evacuate and let the pros deal with it?

Mike.

Rockmonkey

Post by Rockmonkey » Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:57 pm

About shoulder dislocations - non-trained people should NEVER attempt to relocate such injuries - there is a serious possibility of trapping a nerve - causing much pain, and doing more harm than good.

trent
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Post by trent » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:17 pm

About shoulder dislocations - non-trained people should NEVER attempt to relocate such injuries - there is a serious possibility of trapping a nerve - causing much pain, and doing more harm than good.
Is a non-trained person, following the advice given, any less likely to trap a nerve than a doctor in a hospital?

I used to be acquainted with an a&e doctor. She gave me some advice on how to reduce one's own shoulder in the event of dislocation. If I was any more than 30 minutes from professional help then I wouldn't hesitate to try it.

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Jerry Murland
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Post by Jerry Murland » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:46 pm

Duct tape and a blonde buxom nurse? Come on guys are we being serious about all this!

Scuba Steve

Shoulder Relocation

Post by Scuba Steve » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:29 pm

I have done a 8 day Wilderness First Responder course (in USA). The Protocol for wilderness situations and when you can relocate a shoulder is if you are 2hrs away from help. One of my thoughts though is that will the patient with the shoulder disloctation let you get anywhere near them?

Mobile phone in FA kit is handy + flares if it doesn't work.

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