Lendal kinetic wing preview

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Douglas Wilcox
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Lendal kinetic wing preview

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:09 am

Been fortunate to get my hands on a set of these beauties!

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I have used it 2 days on the Solway, 2 on the Clyde and 1 on Loch Moidart/Sound of Arisaig, all calm unfortunately. My first imprsession is what an effortless paddle it is to use all day, it seems to encourage good paddling technique. I found some manouvering strokes and high bracing, if you need to sweep the trailing edge forward difficult.

It has also been used by beginners, 4*, 5* and 4*coaches. Apart from one 4* paddler, all loved it.

Watch out for a full "Joe Bloggs" or "man in the street" review in the next Paddles mag.

Douglas:o)

Ali Denny

Lendal kinetic wings

Post by Ali Denny » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:24 pm

I've been using the kinetic wings for about 18 months (I had a pre production trail set) and they have been used on the sea, surf, whitewater and K1 racing and training.
Agree that they encourage good paddling technique without going to full wings.
You generally have to play about with the blade angle for best effect in fact I change the angle depending on the conditions (shallower in windier conditions) as you tend to lower your paddling technique.
Certainly the best paddles I've had in 25 years !

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:39 pm

Hmm, nice but are they really necessary on the sea?

What can they do that a decent set of standard assymetrics can't?

Interested to hear...

Cheers,
Mark Rainsley
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Douglas Wilcox
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Kinetik wing

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:22 pm

Wait till you try it, different league, going from carbon composite Nordkapps to these was like going from a poly to a glass boat. Out of 11 people who have tried this demo pair, 10 want one.
Douglas

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:03 pm

Do they...

...catch the wind more?
...make bracing strokes tricky?

Keen to hear what you think, planning on ordering a new touring paddle (I need to order now as I'm left-handed, it won't appear until 2007). If not that, it'll be cranked nordkapps.
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RichardCree

the wing

Post by RichardCree » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:34 pm

Mark,

i have a set on the padlock system, with variable feather and the option of left or right.

if you are anywhere near Glasgow in the near future, let me know and i can give you a shot, same applies to anyone else reading this and wondering what all the fuss is about.

Richard
explore4.co.uk

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Douglas Wilcox
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Kinetik Wing

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:18 pm

Hi Mark,

I have used it for 9 full days now:

Extract from Jan Paddles review:

"On the second day of this trip (Grey Dogs Cuan Sound), there was a force five to six wind gusting down the sea lochs against a flood tide. The Kinetik Wing seemed to slice through the wind with little resistance. In contrast, the wind snatched at the other paddles. In rough water another benefit of the Kinetik Wing became apparent. As the paddle sweeps out to the side it generates not only forward drive but also some vertical lift. This gives a very stable support through the power stroke which proved to be of particular benefit when heading into a steep quartering sea and wind. On this varied trip, I realized that 99.99% of my strokes were forward power strokes, for which the Kinetik Wing is the most efficient and easy to paddle I have ever tried."

If you do need to use bracing strokes:

"I also used the paddle at a 4* training and assessment weekend on the Clyde. Low braces were excellent, high braces were a little more difficult. Any stroke where you alternately reverse the flow across the paddle is difficult. Rolling was excellent unless I needed a little extra support by sweeping the blade forward again at the end of the main support stroke. I could not get the angle quite right with the sharp trailing edge leading. Likewise, I found sculling for support very difficult. Draw strokes were good but I found a sculling draw very difficult. After a few pointers from the coach, I found stern rudders easy and the aspirant 5* paddler had no problems with the bow rudder."

"If you are the type of paddler who enjoys the technical mastery of each stroke with a conventional paddle, perhaps the Kinetik Wing is not the paddle for you. But technology moves on, how many photographers still use film and chemicals rather than digital? In my other sport, windsurfing, many of the techniques that were taught as core skills have been bypassed by recent developments in boards and rigs. Thankfully for paddling, companies like Lendal are prepared to be innovators and not live on past glory, though I admit that their beautiful wooden blades from the 60’s are works of art!"

Basically don't order anything else to you try these, on the other hand save yourself some time and order your set now!

Douglas :o)

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mharrall
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Wing paddle

Post by mharrall » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:48 am

Mark,

Wing paddles naturally move transversely through the water away from the boat when you pull on them (provided you have a high vertical paddling style). This sideways motion has a dual effect: Firstly it makes the paddle work a bit like an aircraft wing providing lift, or in this case forward pressure. This reduces the amount that the paddle moves backwards through the water when you pull on it, this means that each stroke is longer and more efficient. The second effect is to promote a 'swing' style of paddling stroke, which is very much about using the stronger muscles of the back rather than the arms.
Wing paddles are a little harder to use for strokes such as bow rudders and low braces etc, but by no means impossible.

Martin

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:44 pm

I've only ever had to wait about 2 months for custom paddles directly from Lendal, and it makes no difference to them time wise if they are left or right handed. I haven't tried the kinetic wings but I am using the carbon composite kinetic touring and mystik paddles (sea and river respectively) on cranks and I am really pleased with the light weight and performance of them. I always use a wrist leash on my sea paddles, they really are that light! I guess I should look Douglas or Richard up for a shot of these new wings sometime....

JIM

RichardCree

paddles

Post by RichardCree » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:12 pm

Jim, feel free, any time

Richard

Pat Mu

Kinetic Wing

Post by Pat Mu » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:26 pm

Just a couple of quick questions for you folks that have played with these;

What length did you go for compared to your "normal" paddles?

Anyone tried them on a modified crank?

Anyone want to buy some second hand powermasters?

RichardCree

wing

Post by RichardCree » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:31 pm

i used them for 25 miles on mod crank on sunday, and they were even better, although had to flatten the feather a bit to get a clean exit from the water. i was using them for surf landings and a bit of big swell rockhopping in a sea kayak, and they were as easy to use as my knorkapps' on a straight shaft i dropped 10cm in length but on the crank they were fine, dont know how it all works, just that it makes paddling a whole lot easier.

Hope this waffle helps

cheers

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Zoe Newsam
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Wings

Post by Zoe Newsam » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:13 am

Are they really what they're cracked up to be? Sure you're not jumping on the Sean-Morley-paddling-machine-go-in-a-straight-line-forever bandwagon????? Surely they would make more delicate strokes like draw strokes etc more difficult and possibly unstable? The joy of paddling in the UK (and particularly the West Coast of Scotland) for me has a lot to do with investigating nooks & crannies, rock-hopping, cave exploring etc... In other words going places where other people can't. Wings might be fast, but are they accurate? Think I'll stick with my Kinetic Touring blades!

Cheers, Zoe

RichardCree

wing

Post by RichardCree » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:34 pm

Hi Zoe,

they are fantastic, no problem doing any strokes, although sculling for support is a bit harder, what you have to do with the wing is acurate strokes, not lazy strokes, they just take a bit of practice. i will give you a shot in December when your up. cheers Richard

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Zoe Newsam
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Wings

Post by Zoe Newsam » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:04 pm

Sounds good! See you in December :-) Z[/img]

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Douglas Wilcox
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Lendal Kinetic Wings on cranks

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:15 pm

Richard Cree kindly lent me his Kinetik Wing padlok blades to put on my cranks.

I have now spent 2 days paddling with them side to side with KWings on a straight shaft. One day was a force 5 southerly on the solway with a 1 metre swell, the other was a force 5 to 6 NW on the Solway gusting down off the hills but with flat water.

Although the KWs on a straight shaft put less strain on the wrists than Nordkapp or Kinetic touring blades they do still put more strain on the wrist than KW's on cranks. I have arthritis and have a pretty bad wrist at the moment. The KWs on cranks are easiily the most wrist friendly.

I have a variable centre joint and experimented with the feather. I started at 70 degrees and worked down. Personally I found 30 degrees perfect, even in the strong gusty wind. 30 degrees was very easy on the sore wrist on my control side. Richard C prefers 60 degrees.

Lastly, the KWs are very easy to handle in the air in fresh to strong winds.

Douglas

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Douglas Wilcox
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Post by Douglas Wilcox » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:15 pm

I have used nothing but the Kinetik Wings on short cranked shafts since the time this thread was written. All the people I regularly paddle with use them too.

I use 30 degree feather or less and prefer a short tip to tip length of about 2.08m.

I use them in all conditions except when playing in the surf near shore when I tend to use a river paddle.

I find it very difficult to go back to conventional paddles, even lightweight carbon ones.

I cannot recommend these highly enough, I think choice of paddle can make an even bigger difference to how you feel at the end of the day than choice of boat!

Although the Lendal factory in Prestwick has now closed, you will find that David Runniff at Johnson Outdoors, Gt Yarmouth, will still provide knowledgeable and personal attention in the UK.

Douglas

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maryinoxford
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Post by maryinoxford » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:11 pm

I'm currently using the cheapest-material Lendal blades/straight shaft with Archipelago blades. (Better than my alloy-and-plastic first paddle.) I've been toying with the idea of going for a lighter paddle, so this thread interests me. The Archipelago blade is similar to the standard Kinetic but a bit smaller. Kinetic Wing do an S version which is a smaller size, so I suppose that would be the equivalent.

As I paddle a folder, and like to be able to get everything in a backpack, my paddle is a 4-part split, with Paddlok joints - very secure in use, but not adjustable. One route I could go would be to buy a set of blades and mount them on the existing shaft. Alternatively, if I bought a complete paddle, I would still want Paddlok joints fitting blades to shaft, but I wondered about a more versatile joint in the middle, the SwitchLok that lets the feather be varied.

Any comments from all you Kinetic Wing users?

Mary
Not in Oxford any more...

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Douglas Wilcox
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Post by Douglas Wilcox » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:15 pm

Hello Mary,

I have both the varilok (feather and 5cm length adjustment) and the switchlok (feather only) shafts. Before I was sure about short paddle shafts I bought a varilok shaft.

The Kinetik Wing is 5cm longer than standard Lendal blades so you need to have a 10cm shorter shaft than your current one if you want to keep the same length.

If you go for cranks and a short shaft, you might need to ask for the distance between the cranks to be shorter. The standard is 55cm but I prefer mine at 50 cm and I am not exactly narrow across the shoulders.

Go for it!

Douglas

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:20 pm

Douglas Wilcox wrote:The Kinetik Wing is 5cm longer than standard Lendal blades so you need to have a 10cm shorter shaft than your current one if you want to keep the same length.
Other factors come into play also;

- the 'Wing' paddling style is much more vertical than the usual, generally implying the need for a shorter paddle length overall
- the distance between the cranked shaft grips may need adjusting (varilok allows this) according to your arm length.

Although I already had a fairly 'upright' paddling style, I have my Wings at least 5cm longer than my normal paddles - I have widened the gap between the grips as much as I could.

A final factor is, do you need Kinetic Wings? I have noticed more than one paddler proudly using their Wings out on the water who doesn't appear to be aware of the stroke needed to make them work. Changing to Wings will make no difference to anything (apart from making supports/braces harder) unless you use them correctly.
Mark Rainsley
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maryinoxford
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Post by maryinoxford » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:09 pm

Mark R wrote:A final factor is, do you need Kinetic Wings? I have noticed more than one paddler proudly using their Wings out on the water who doesn't appear to be aware of the stroke needed to make them work. Changing to Wings will make no difference to anything (apart from making supports/braces harder) unless you use them correctly.
Thanks for that caveat, Mark. I've no idea whether KW would suit me or not; I just happened to be wondering about paddles when this thread resurfaced with people heaping praise on Wings. And the moral is, try before you buy, for something as expensive as carbon paddles.

Mary
Not in Oxford any more...

renezee
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Experiences with the Kinetik Wing

Post by renezee » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:22 am

When the Kinetik wing arrived on the scene I thought back to my experiments in seakayking with a standard competition wing in 1995.
I concluded than that such a wing indeed offered a higher efficiency and thus a higher speed.
There were only a few big drawbacks: In waves the blade can play you tricks by diving at the moment you make paddlemoves like sculling, slicing-moves, bowrudder or even with sweepstrokes: with big chance making you capsize. This added not to my level of safety and security.
Final conclusion was that it should be nice when a special sea-wing, with no spoon-shape, could be developed.

When I saw the Kinetik Wing my first thought was: there is my "seawing"!
So I bought one to learn paddling with it.

My impressions:

My first impressions (having just started 2 years ago) with the Kinetik Wing were that the Kinetik Wing (KW)
performed much better in waves as a competition wing, BUT slicing the blade through the water is requiring still extra attention not to get tricked by a diving blade. And sculling is still a bit spasmodic for me.
I decided I could only learn to rely on this paddle after a long learning-period in which I should try to change my reflexes with paddle-strokes.

Now, after 2 years of paddling the KW:
In this period, apart from playing, I paddled all kind of waves and weather and I was never really tricked in performing all the normal paddle movements, steering- and bracing strokes. I had just sometimes the feeling "Oeps,this just went well" : Like in a heavy dumping wave, taking me along backwards first; spitting me out upwards and than ending on top of the wave with the shaft of the paddle twisted in my hands !! If it was a kind of hip-reflex or just Neptunes saving me, I don't know, but I managed to twist from a backwards loop to a bottom-landing.

So, in general:
- "just paddling" the KW in all kinds of weather is OK.
- the KW does NOT invite to play and playing along with paddlestrokes. Automatically I played much less in this period.
- The slicing movements can be performed much, much better as with a standard competition wing, but you should still stay alert always.
- the paddle itself paddled superb: the blade enters and exits the water very "fluently", very natural. It's a delight to paddle. Very good design of the blades.
- Apart from the slicing movements, there is the stern-rudder: In big following waves, when the kayak wants to broach, it is sometimes difficult to apply enough force in the stern-rudder to prevent broaching. The back-side of the blade just has less grip on the water. This had to do with the blade model for a bit, but also with the fact that I have only one oval handgrip: I had this problem only when applying stern-rudder at the side of
the round handgrip.
- About the efficiency of the KW: I struggled for the whole of the past 2 years in finding the correct technique for paddling with the highest efficiency and speed. In the end I concluded that you can only gain in
efficiency when highly concentrated on the pulling-blade moving outwards, supported by trunk-rotation. The difficult thing is that the blades of the KW themself only support (or force you to) this movement a VERY LITTLE BIT !! (this in contrary to the spoon-wings, which force you outwards by themself).
So after a while, when concentration drops a bit, the efficiency-advantage from the KW is GONE.
In fact I could paddle faster with my old, heavy "Schlegel Racing"-paddle than with the Kinetik Wing.

My conclusions:
- Kinetik wing is very pleasant to paddle with
- not easy to playing. Less fun when playing.
- no significant better over-all efficiency than a good conventional paddle
- Two oval handgrips are essential. (It could be; that 2 oval handgrips improve on the slicing movements. Still got to try that, but as my shaft is a one-piece, the original Lendal-oval handgrip can not be applied)
- in heavy weather&sea I feel more relaxed with a conventional paddle

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AS Watersports
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Post by AS Watersports » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:17 pm

For all who are not sure and in the west country we have a set of kinetic wings for demo.

They are 230 cm length with a carbon cranked shaft and the variable padlock join giving either left or right hand use and adjustable feather. They can also be extended by 5cm. They have a thumb to thumb measurement of 59cm. (you could hold them a bit closer together. i paddle like a monkey)

One of the reasons our set is so long is the blades them selves are very long. From tip of blade to the conection with the shaft is 57cm. A set of Kinetic touring is 51cm.

Drop us a line if you whish to have a go.

Ewart

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