So...which Paddle?

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ian newman
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So...which Paddle?

Post by ian newman » Sat May 01, 2004 3:20 pm

I am soon to buy LENDAL paddles for sea touring and currently favour KINETIC over NORDKAP, as the Kinetics are both lighter and the blade tips more cutaway than the Nordkap. Overall,I think the Kinetic will be closer in weight and `pull` to my flatwater carbon wings than the Nordkap design - I`ve used nothing but wings for marathon racing for the past 10+ years...
I know that the Nordkap has been a good standard for sea touring, so how does it compare to the more recent Kinetic...any thoughts please?
Ian Newman
(p.s. Wings blades are 17cm x 50cm. Both Kinetic and Nordkap are 19.5cm x 50cm)

Helen
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I so can't comment ..

Post by Helen » Sat May 01, 2004 4:52 pm

For the past 5 years I have used a really heavy set of ...yellow and pink paddles! Feel secure! happy! Safe!!! am sure new paddles are .. good (ish) .. BUT ... like the secure feelin'! This WILL change! Discovery is a great thing! Will check it our and get back - eventually!

H - x

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Douglas Wilcox
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paddles

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Mon May 03, 2004 2:19 pm

Hi Ian, I paddled for a year with kinetics but my daughter had Nordkaps. I tried the Nordkaps and liked them better. I am built quite heavy round the shoulders, mu daughter is not. She prefers the Nordkaps as well. Also I really like the Lendal Padlok system, not just for transportation but to allow you to get just the perfect feather. I now use 30 degrees on Lendal cranks.
Douglas

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sub5rider
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Re: paddles

Post by sub5rider » Mon May 03, 2004 2:31 pm

I really think it's down to personal preferance. I borrowed Kinetics, liked 'em so bought a pair. I briefly tried a pair of Nordcapps after my purchase, the only discernable difference of note was that the Norcapp blade tended to catch the wind more. My Kinetics are 60deg feather, dunno what the Norcapps were. You need to get out and try some.....Mr Knoydart might let you...
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

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MikeB
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Paddles

Post by MikeB » Mon May 03, 2004 3:33 pm

I use a Nordkapp paddle, on a cranked shaft and also have a pair of what I think (from the blade shape)are Kinetiks on a straight shaft.

The Nordkapp is a big blade, but if you are a strong paddler with plenty of power, its nice. The Kinetik is a much easier blade to "pull", but didnt give me the confidence I wanted for sculling and support (probably largely psycological really).

I can certainly achieve a higher paddling rate with the Kinetik but as I prefer a "lazy, slogging rate" anyway its not an issue.

The Nordkapp seems similar to the earlier Powermaster which I also have,but on a straight shaft - I find it has a tendancy to "flutter". The crank on the Nordkapp makes this much less noticable. That means I can hold the shaft far less tightly.

So I'd recommend a cranked shaft in any case - much better for the wrists - if you do decide on a crank, you will need much less feather than you'd expect (as per Douglas' comment) - I think mine is 70 and a bit less would have been better.

You also need to give careful consideration to the spacing between the cranked sections. On a personal note, I find that I'd prefer slightly less than the distance recommended to me when I ordered it.

Consider the choice of materials carefully (for blades and shaft) - if you have the readies you can save nearly 300 grms on a Nordkapp but the price more than doubles :eek

That may not seem a lot of weight, but I guess it all adds up over a days paddling. A couple of friends I paddle with are using some sort of fancy "wing" paddle (from Knoydart) - costs nearly £300 - but weighs almost half of what I thought was a light paddle when I bought it.

The Knoydart site / catalogue lists all the material / weight options. And the price options!

Nordkapp - straight - basic model = £75 / 990g
Nordkapp (mine) - cranked - nylon (N12) blade + glass shaft = £120 / 1240g.
Nordkapp - cranked - carbon blade + glass/carbon shaft = £228 / 845g.
Nimbus Feather wing = £285 / 770g

Mike.


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sub5rider
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Re: Paddles

Post by sub5rider » Mon May 03, 2004 5:15 pm

I find that I'd prefer slightly less than the distance recommended to me when I ordered it.
Me too! My shaft could do with being 1.5-2cms shorter, and I opted for the minimum recommeded sizing too. I had contemplated inserting a joint and shortening it but I seem to have becom accostomed to it now.....

:\
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

Someone
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Paddles

Post by Someone » Mon May 03, 2004 5:59 pm

"My shaft could do with being 1.5-2cms shorter," - really ? :rollin :rollin :rollin :hat :o :smokin

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sub5rider
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Re: Paddles

Post by sub5rider » Mon May 03, 2004 6:06 pm

C'mon "Someone" own up ... or are you too ashamed of your puerile at humour ?? ;)

Get your coat....
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

Phil
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paddles

Post by Phil » Tue May 04, 2004 1:50 am

I assume from the "get your coat" reference that you think the previous posting was was from me, I assure you Nigel, it was not. I would have gone with the inserting a joint, and feeling a lot more relaxed about it afterwards angle............
Phil Nordcapp Guru, apparently
by the way your spoolins tribble
On the subject of paddles I was speaking to Knoydart Dave at the weekend (Sea-Symposium)on this very subject, I like big assymetrics like the nordcapp, but also use lower blade area paddles for long distance(Cliftons)and he was recommending the Epic Wayfarer,(very underrated blade) in carbon/hybrid as a good all-around.£140
They also come with my preferred feather angle of 60 degrees. A straight shaft would also enable me to move my hands the required 1.5-2 cms to get a comfortable fit (sorry just cant abide cranks)I prefer to be able to change my spacing slightly every so often, just a personal thing I dont like the "locked in feeling" that cranks give me.
As mentioned above the Feather wing may be a good buy if you are used to wings, Dave assures me that if you like an aggressive high style of paddling they will fit you like a glove after a very short while. Personally Ill remain unfashionable!

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sub5rider
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Re: paddles

Post by sub5rider » Tue May 04, 2004 9:59 am

I assume from the "get your coat" reference that you think the previous posting was was from me,
No, Phil, certainly not. Can't imagine you lurking behind a cloak of anonymity! Your use of that phrase was in the "other place" so won't have been read by correspondenta here.... :\
by the way your spoolins tribble
Do they, no-one's pointed it out previously. How long's it been going on ?

Cheers 'n' Beers
Nigel, aka Sub5Rider, Onioneer

Phil
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paddles

Post by Phil » Tue May 04, 2004 11:40 am

spelling
seems to have occurred about 5.15, thats Stella time isn't it?
Phil

ian newman
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So ..... which paddles CONCLUSION

Post by ian newman » Tue May 04, 2004 11:03 pm

From what I`ve read so far I reckon the larger blade area of the Nordkapp is beter suited to larger framed paddlers than me. Long distance paddlers don`t need power, but an ability to maintain efficient stroke, rate and endurance...so I am still favouring the Kinetic on that point, i.e. I don`t need a `powerful` blade. Cranks are also definately not for me so whilst a great idea for some, I need the flexibility to vary the width of paddle grasp, for comfort if nothing else. Weight is a biggie....lighter is DEFINATELY better (and more ££££`s). I love the idea of a padlock system and have paddled with a 70o feather for soooo long, I can`t see that I`d ever need to vary it(?)

At the end of the day I need to actually try Nordkapps against Kinetics to really know...

Thanks to all for the responses....much appreciated!

DaveM
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paddles

Post by DaveM » Wed May 05, 2004 1:39 pm

As you paddle with wings, I'd suggest the kinetics, as you can use then in the normal way (straight pull) or with a modified wing stroke.

Nordkapps, in common with other 70s and 80s asymetrics don't 'wing' well due to the front and back ribs that disrupt flow.

I sea paddle with DeLapre carbon polo blades (from Mega), which are similar to kinetics and work well in both modes. They gave me an average 1mph speed increase over my old asymetrics.

Interestingly, I cut the sides off my asymetrics for my daughter, leaving only a 4 inch wide strip down the centre (about 45% of the original area) giving a vaguely Greenland style blade. Using them as wings I can get the same top speed as with full blades but it's much easier. The down side is less acceleration and weak bracing.

I think you would get on well with Greenland paddles, and there are people here that have them. They are cheap and easy to make (see www.qajaqusa.org/ for details).
Take a look at the canted stroke, a sort of inverted wing stroke which makes Greenland paddles really come alive.
I am currently making a feathered pair with wing section blades out of some pine that was laying about in the garage.

Dave

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Mark R
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Re: paddles

Post by Mark R » Wed May 05, 2004 4:06 pm

DaveM - 'I sea paddle with DeLapre carbon polo blades (from Mega), which are similar to kinetics and work well in both modes. They gave me an average 1mph speed increase over my old asymetrics.'

That sounds remarkable. Why do you think that this is?


-----------Mark Rainsley

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Jim
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Re: paddles

Post by Jim » Mon May 10, 2004 10:06 pm

Umm, didn't Delapre go bust?

I use Kinetic touring blades on the sea, admitteddly the ultra light carbon version on a cranked shaft and find them very easy to get along with over long distances, and also have amazing power available if you want a short burst, say to catch up with someone. I am possibly slower than people using Nordkapp paddles, but my boat and the loading in it might also be a factor. Do be a bit careful there are a number of kinetic blade shapes now.

JIM

DaveM
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Polo blades

Post by DaveM » Mon May 17, 2004 1:30 pm

Hi Mark,

It's not a big surprise really, and it took a long time to find that particular blade shape.

The front and back are both smooth, so it can be used as a thin wing, so the losses and slip associated with non-wing paddles are reduced. I actually use the Greenland style canted stroke with them instead of the racing wing stroke.

There is good info and video on the canted stroke on
www.qajaqusa.org/
Don't be fooled by the thin sticks, it works well with some 'Euro' paddles.

The Lendal asymetrics have a lot of hook (curvature tip to shaft), so more water flows off the sides hald way down, like trying to fill a bowl with the sides cut off.

dave

Mike Buckley
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Re: Polo blades

Post by Mike Buckley » Mon May 17, 2004 5:52 pm

Dave - interesting - but where on that site is it please? Whenever I looked after your first post on this, I gota 404 from the link as many of the links are broken or link to pages on the Sea Kayaker mag which have been removed - -

Re my comments re my friend with a fancy blade, he tried the Knordkapp at the weekend and said he found he could get more power on, earlier in the stroke. Using his paddle, I found that if you applied power at the start, at full rotation, the thing fluttered a lot.

Mike.

ian newman
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which paddles

Post by ian newman » Tue May 18, 2004 8:50 pm

Weeell! I decided after all to stick with my trusty carbon wings for the sea too. And I also decided that if I did move away from wings I may well go for the Epic paddles. For the same £`s as the Kinetic the Epic paddle is 200g lighter at 750g. The main reason for sticking with wings....I found a set of Nordkapps!!! I guess there is no going back after 10 years of `winging` it. Thanks for all repies - much appreciated by me.

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