Sea kayak comfort/ control

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Mark R
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Sea kayak comfort/ control

Post by Mark R » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:10 pm

How do people fit their sea boats out? I go for tight and snug in my WW boats, but not really sure what to do with my Baidarka...I like to paddle with my kness up in the middle, but also need to be able to roll if necessary.


-----------Mark Rainsley

Mike Buckley
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Comfort

Post by Mike Buckley » Wed Jun 19, 2002 8:26 pm

Sea paddlers "wear" their boats too!

I suppose that as we have generally got more space to play with in the cockpit of a sea-boat, padding around the hips is necessary to create that snug fit.

Personally, I like to use the thigh braces in much the same way as those fitted to my river boat (ie: for control, edging, leaning and bracing) but many boats dont have such mouldings to the cockpit rim. If you have one of the small cockpits then you could easily glue some foam to the dek to create a brace.

Knoydart sell pre-formed knee-brace foam thingies.

As regards overall leg room, it's nice to be able to stretch the old legs out so allow room for that if padding bulkheads with foam to provide a foot rest.

The Quest has keeper rests and the Aleut has the rigid cross-bar fitted with the "C Trim" rudder system. In both of them I can still get my legs straight as they are both set up so that I use the balls of my feet.

Again, a decent footrest helps with the rotation and braces, edges etc etc.

Seats are another source of much debate - latest P&H and Valley seats are ok (for me anyway) but you can get a nice comfy foam alternative as well as all sorts of pads and goodies to cushion your bum. I guess a bit of old Karrimat works too.

Essential is a decent backrest and here P&H have got it right, big style!! The back rest in the Aleut is ok -ish. If you look at the stuff available to the yanks, they go to the extreme of providing what look like armchairs - but then they dont edge or rotate, do they???? Heh heh.

Not sure about the knees-up style. Any relation to Mother Brown I wonder???????? ;)

Mike.

Craig Addison
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Re: Comfort

Post by Craig Addison » Wed Jun 19, 2002 9:45 pm

I stick bits of carry mat to the underside of the deck where my knees are in the brace position. As for being tightly fitted in the boat.........I'm not,(I get cramp & pins & neddles etc.if I am jammed in) I tend to paddle with my legs relaxed & outstretched on the bottom of the boat, with the footrests resting in my insoles, I can easily move into the braced position if the going gets pretty hairy.

A couple of years ago I met a guy who had lined the inside of his Nordkapp with etha foam, it completely lined the cockpit & was cut out in the middle etc. to give the correct support & comfort where needed, really looked the bizz.

Dont forget that you are likely to be in your boat for a few hours at a time and will need to move around a bit to stop your legs getting cramp etc.

Mikes right about the latest P&H backrests, the Dogs Dangly Bits or what? I'm going to try to fit one to my Nordkapp in the near future.

Craig.


Craig. http://www.bcu.org.uk/sea

Mike Buckley
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Comfort

Post by Mike Buckley » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:35 pm

Hmmmmmmm - now THERE's a thought!

I think the secret of the P&H seat lies with it's "bum shaped" moulding, but also with the fact that the backrest locates with three tabs in slots in a flange at the back of the seat.

Those tabs seem to stop the rest falling down while still allowing a degree of movement. The seat itslef also has a little movement built in.

Which leads me to wonder whether the dimensions are sufficiently similar between the Quest seat and the Aleut seat - - - - -

My Nordkapp was fitted with the foam seat but although it was comfy and warm it just didnt give the support the P&H one does. But, there is a problem with the P&H seat in that its bl**dy slippy and you do slide on it, even though there is a lovely pad thingy for each hip.

Other than roughening the surface with sandpaper, does anyone have any other practical, effective suggestions??

Thin, Karrimat type foam suitably stuck down would be one option - but standard Karrimat would be a bit too thick) Thoughts? A while ago (15 yrs - oh err) I got some 3mm Karrimat off a roll in a shop in Hull - can you still get it?

Mike.

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Mark R
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Re: Comfort

Post by Mark R » Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:04 pm

I've always (and still) stuck a block of foam in for the footrest. But I was wondering whether this might (over time) weaken the forward bulkhead from repeated stress.

Anybody encountered this? Other footrest options?

Cheers,


-----------Mark Rainsley

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roo
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Footrests Re: Comfort

Post by roo » Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:33 am

I loved the keeper rests in the Quest that I borrowed recently. It meant that stretching the legs was easy and made for extra comfort on the days when we were in the boats for hours.

On longer trips I noticed that the other lads put their sleeping bags in front of their f/rests, I think a foam block would work the same way, but a little less flexible. Additionally I think they had the metal bar style rests that are also easy to get your feet under for a stretch.

I would have liked a bit of hip padding but I was generally loose in the boat. In the future I would make sure I had plenty of padding to stop my arse slipping from side to side but would choose to leave my legs relatively loose, you can always brace your legs when you need to....

hf
roo
Edited by: roo at: 6/21/02 9:34:42 am

Richard Seaby
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Re: Footrests Re: Comfort

Post by Richard Seaby » Fri Jun 21, 2002 12:04 pm

I have never bothered with much padding - I carry plenty around with me generally!

Last night I was out paddling and at the end we had a wet play about - I found that I was hanging out of the boat rather worryingly when I was rolling - It made my hand roll less than certain.

However so I think I will put just a tad of padding in - the balance between being tight in my boat in summer gear and still be able to get in it in full winter kit is always a bit of a balance.

Just random thoughts - while I should be working

Richard

Mike Buckley
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Comfort

Post by Mike Buckley » Fri Jun 21, 2002 12:07 pm

<foam blocks for footrests>

This is very common (especially in boats fitted with a footpump because the b/head is positioned for the paddlers leg length and this often means that keeper rails can't fit properly) and I've never heard of a bulkhead giving way.

The N/kapp was so fitted - I rather think that the inherent cushioning of the foam spreads the load over the b/head anyway.

You could always add an extra fillet of glass to provide extra reinforcement if it worried you.

Mike.


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Jim
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Sea kayak comfort/ control

Post by Jim » Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:56 pm

My glassfibre seat is completely covered in cheap karrimat, and I stuck some (a lot) under the deck too to cushion my knees and avoid fibreglass rash. As for the footrest, it's a bit temporary! The boat is fitted with Metal keepers, but the angle of them is awful and they destroy my feet if used for a long time, so I just throw my BDH in behind them and use that instead! My backrest is quite a wide one - looks like the one I used to have in the Corsica S!

The fit is reasonably tight in that I am sufficiently wedged in to use a serious amount of edge for turning or for rolling, but I can still move my legs a little. This is due to the fact that the sea boat has loads of spare room around the feet, meaning you can slide them sideways (if using a bulkhead arrangement like my BDH) to get more or less space to stretch or wedge yourself in!

I wouldn't worry too much about damaging the bulkhead using it as a footrest, many boats are deigned this way and the bulkheads usually have more than enough bonding area and reinforcement not to spring a leak. If you suspect the bulkhead is flexing you could glass a stiffener onto it, but again a lot seem to be foam sandwiches anyway which means they are built stiffened.

Fitting an adjustable backrest might be a good option - you can slacken it if you need a stretch and tighten it for rough stuff (do well in advance to avoid popping the deck in the rough stuff...).

JIM

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Mark99
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comfort

Post by Mark99 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:26 pm

I've just taken the backrest off a Islander sit=on=top and have put it in my Dagger Exodus. It fits in the cam lock system exactly,so is adjustable, gives lots of back support & seems to work fine under a spraydeck Mark

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Jonas Karlsson
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Re: Sea kayak comfort/ control

Post by Jonas Karlsson » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:58 am

Mark R wrote:How do people fit their sea boats out? I go for tight and snug in my WW boats, but not really sure what to do with my Baidarka...I like to paddle with my kness up in the middle, but also need to be able to roll if necessary.


-----------Mark Rainsley<I></I>



I bought my Nordkapp HS with oceancockpit a year ago...I paddled a NorthShore Calypso earlier. I found a nice solution by a danish kayaker on his website. I have used this solution from the begining in my Nordkapp and is very satisfied. With this "foam-masik" I can keep my knees and legs in a rather centered position. During forward paddling I can then work with my feet, legs, hip and abdominal muscels in an optimal way. During turning/edging and rolling I also get great support with my knees/tighs. This in combination with hip-pads works just fine for me. I used a closedcell foamblock and used a saw and sandpaper to form it the right way, then I just glued it in the correct position under the deck.



I try to place the link to the the danish website with photos here...



http://www.hamberg.dk/node/82



...unfortunatly the page is in danish, but you "get the picture" from the photos...



Take care



Jonas

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