Bivi bags and minimalist camping^

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ol
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Bivi bags and minimalist camping^

Post by ol » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:04 pm

I have a few items of kit to buy for forthcoming trips and wanted to get some advice from a few folk before I go spending money on things I have little experience of.

The intention is to be self-contained in my Whitewater boat (not sea kayak but thought there may be more sea paddlers with bivi experience) and be able to sleep out on whatever terrain we encounter near the riverside.

I have zero experience with Bivi bags but from a bit of reading have gathered that I need a bag mostly to be waterproof and also breathable, it also must obviously be as light as possible. A couple I have looked at so far include:

Alpkit Hunka
A cheap and cheerful bag, perhaps suited for me who may not use a bivi too often once back in Blighty. My only concern is the lack of complete closure with this bag. This would be bad in rain, and would also allow man-eating bugs to eat me alive and generally share my bed....Is there anything I could rig up to get around this such as a mozzie head-net etc?
Image

The next I am looking at is:

Mountain Equipment Ion Bivi
A nice light bivi which has full enclosure but does not have a very high waterproof rating.
Image

Next is a:

Mountain Equipment Borealis
This is similar to the Ion but has a much better spec including waterproofing, but it is obviously a bit pricey for a casual user maybe.
Image

A:

Vango Force Ten Alpine Bivi Bag
Again, a bit pricey for me but looks pretty good.
Image

and finally(yawn):

Vaude Bivi tent
Something which I like the look of the most and perhaps would use again as a lightweight space-saving tent. What perhaps concerns me with this is that it needs 'pitching', in that it would need its guy ropes anchoring on something to get tension across the structure. I can imagine that trying to find nice flat ground which would yield to a tent peg when at the side of some far-flung river may prove troublesome and this is where I suppose a standard bivi bag would have an advantage?
Image

Incidentally, some advice about pitching on hard ground here.


So, basically, I need a lightweight shelter which is rainproof, breathable, able to withstand critter attack, small-packing, easy-pitching or non-pitching and which ideally is cheap.

Can anyone offer a novice a few hints in this area or do you have direct experience with any of these 'systems'?
Thanks.
OL

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Post by Speciman » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:16 am

A few weeks back I tried out a Terra Nova Jupiter goretex bivi. It was a cold crisp night, I was camped on a shingle bank, and slept in a 4 season down bag with a thermarest underneath.

I found condensation was an issue despite leaving the entrance zip slighty open. My down bag was damp in places. When I awoke there was a thick layer of frost on the bag so that won't have helped breathability.

I only planned to stay one night but if it had been more I could have got into difficulties due to the bag getting damp.

I've since sold the bivi and am sticking with my Hilleberg Akto one man tent - I need some porch space and condensation has never been an issue.

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Bivi bags....

Post by MikeD » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:55 am

I personally use the Terra Nova Apollo:
http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/epages/terr ... 2A&28G&29#

The art of using a bivi bag (And yes, it is an art, believe me !) is to first find out if you can actually use one:

Can yousleep with just the thin nylon covering most of your face ? many people really have a problem with this.

Find a bag that is waterproof & breathable. I am more than happy with the TerraNova, though it is now getting old & worn.

Get a really good sleeping pad. The thermarest prolite 4 is good for normal use. I like to use a full-length foam mat outside the bivi & a 3/4 length themarest inside the bivi. This combo provides a physical insulation & a comfortable, warm layer of air under the body.

Choose your campsite carefully. Find somwhere that offers a little shelter from the wind, but still allows air to be constantly passing over the bivi bag.
The constant air-flow will assist the breathability of the bag. If you lie in an area that is completly free of air circulation, you will be warmer & wetter !

Getting into & out of bivi bags is the singularly best & worst part of lightweight camping...... Good weather is great, you can fall asleep with the stars above you, and make & eat breakfast from inside a nice warm sleeping bag. In rain it is really horrible to have get out of wet clothing, take footwear off & try to get into the bag..... getting out is even worse....

Using a bivibag is a state of mind, you need to take the good along with the not so good, you experience the effects of mother nature on your own body much more than in a tent......

I normally use a bivi here in Scandinavia in the winter when anything falling from the sky will be snow, or the skys are crystal clear.In the summer I use the bivi when I want to really push-on, using all of the daylight hours for kayaking, hiking or climbing with as little weight as possible to slow me down.

Get a copy of the book of the bivi, it really is a great read, fun & informative:

http://www.cicerone.co.uk/product/detai ... ow/reviews

Try it, borrow a bag before investing in your own

good luck

Mike

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Or try one of these....

Post by atakd » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:23 am

http://www.hennessyhammock.com/

Does require trees or sturdy fencing though.
Andy

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Post by Chas C » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:32 am

I've just ordered a Jack Wolfskin TEXAPORE BIVI BAG, it has a mosi net, its breathable and costs £48 from http://leisurequest.net/shop/home.php

Won't be trying it out until I reach India in March.

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Post by ol » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:23 am

Thanks for all the answers so far everyone, very helpful. I agree, it looks like something of an art...

It does seem like condensation will be one of the major issues as will physically getting in and out of the bag particularly in bad weather when used to a good sized tent.

The hammock would be good but I would encounter the same problems I may have with the lightweight 1 person tent, that is, somewhere to pitch. Would I get to an overnight stop to find no trees? Not sure I want to take the chance. With the bivi-tent, will I get to the overnight stop and find no way of anchoring the guy ropes or no ground flat enough to pitch?......

Chas, the Jack Wolfskin bivi looks pretty good for the money I must say. I'm not sure if it is fully enclosed though for complete protection from the rain, the mozzie net sounds like a bonus though.

Speciman, the Terra Nova looks like a good compromise between a bivi and a tent, I am surprised you suffered from condensation as it looks like there would be a good amount of air movement in there.
Image
It also may be a little more money than I want to spend at the moment as I am not so sure how much use I would get out of it after my trip next year.

Anyone have any handy tips for finding suitable places to pitch small tents when there are no suitable places?

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Post by ian johnston » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:41 am

Hi Ol

I echo all the comments made by MikeD above. I do lots of wild camping, bothying and general outdoor living; I tried several times but just can't get on with bivi bags. Condensation WILL be an issue in UK conditions, as will midges.

Have a look at the Terra Nova Laser tents - they're incredibly light (around 950g which is as light or lighter than a bivi bag) and have just one pole. With a tent you can sit up, stretch around, store kit to keep it dry, cook under some shelter and eat in the tent - all big advantages in poor or midgey conditions. The thing packs down to nothing too. One caveat I'd place on the Laser is that it's not the bombproof construction of the standard Terra Nova tents, due to the ultralight ethos.

If finding enough flat ground to pitch a one-person tent is a potential problem; the tent inner takes up only marginally more space than a bivi bag - if you can't find enough flat ground then you'd be unlikely to be able to lie comfortably in a bag.

Ultimately it's about personal comfort - anyone can suffer but why?! If the weather is really good, just use a (synthetic fill) sleeping bag and a mat - your bag will get no damper with dew than it would in a bivi bag.

I really recommend trying a bivi in less than ideal conditions (even in your back garden) before you part with the wedge to see if it's right for you - they really are an aquired taste!

Remember too, that if you envisage kipping on the bank of the river that the level can come up more emphatically and quicker than you'd believe possible - I speak from hard experience many years ago! ;) A good rule of thumb is to estimate how high you think it would get - then double it.....

Whatever your choice, happy wild camping in 2008!

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Post by Speciman » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:01 am

Hi Ol

Yes I was surprised and disappointed too.

Agree with Ian's comments. You may find an ultralight tent more suited for UK use particulary if you are spending more than 2 nights away.

If it had been raining it would have been much harder keeping dry whilst cooking and getting changed.

Simon

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Post by ol » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:57 pm

Speciman wrote: You may find an ultralight tent more suited for UK use particulary if you are spending more than 2 nights away.
Thanks, its not so much for UK use, rather worldwide use travelling with a kayak so would most likely be encountering differing climates, and differing terrain.

Good point about pitching space Ian, I suppose if there is enough room to lie down, then there will probably be enough room to attempt to string up a small tent.

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Post by naefearjustbeer » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:03 pm

Why not add a tarp and some bungee cords to your camping equipment and rig up extra shelter with it if it is pissing down with rain. I am pretty sure you could use paddles as temporary poles etc to help rig up a tarp if there are no trees.

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Post by danthomas » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:37 pm

I'll agree with Ian. After learning the hard way, I will only use a bivi bag under exactly one set of circumstances - when the weather is so good that no bag at all would be just as comfy. The bag is no more than insurance in case the weather turns out to be less good than I expected. Using a bivi bag in anything other than perfect weather is pure purgatory. It is do-able but no fun at all.

Two things to watch out for if you do decide to bivi:

Never, never, coat yourself in midgie repellant and then zip the bag closed. I really mean it!

If you bivi on sloping ground you are quite likely to wake up twenty feet from where you went to sleep. The bag quietly slides down hill during the night. Could be awkward if you are on a river bank...

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Post by ol » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:16 am

danthomas wrote: Never, never, coat yourself in midgie repellant and then zip the bag closed. I really mean it!
Will you be asphyxiated, or do you mean it will melt everything?

danthomas wrote: If you bivi on sloping ground you are quite likely to wake up twenty feet from where you went to sleep. The bag quietly slides down hill during the night. Could be awkward if you are on a river bank...
He he, good point.

To be honest, the Bivi-tent option is looking more and more attractive after what folk are saying, I'll still try a standard bivi out one night if I can but the bivi-tent would seem to be more adaptable and useful in the long term.

The Vaude Bivi tent is the favourite at the moment I think.
Image
Its under £100, is under 1kg and the pack size seems fairly acceptable. Has anyone used one? They seem like they may actually be discontinued on the net, as many places are out of stock.

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Post by danthomas » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:29 am

Here is how it works. The weather is midgy so you put on your midgie repellant. It is also rainy so you zip your bag closed. After a minute or two you start to feel a bit funny so you open the zip up. Neither the rain nor the midgies have gone away. They start finding their way into your bag. You put up with that for some minutes but sooner or later rain down your ear and midgies up your nose get a bit too much and you zip the bag closed again. After a minute or two you start to feel a bit funny... and repeat.

You spend a whole night like that and in the morning you go home. You have to use non-chemical means to deal with mdgies or go before the midgie season, but the nights can still be surprisingly cold in May. You don't normally notice the frost at 2am because it has all gone by 5am but you will certainly notice if you are in a suddenly non-breathable bivi bag. Bivvying really is no fun, at least in Britain.

As regards bivi-tents, I've never used one but I've always suspected that the extra bulk and weight of a proper tent is more than compensated for by the ability to cook under cover. That will depend on your personal constraints of course. If I'm walking I'll carry the extra weight and try to look cheerful about it. If I'm in my sea kayak I'll take a few more minutes to pack the extra bulk. I've never camped out of a white water boat but I imagine you could be very short of space. Or perhaps not? You could probably fit a fair amount of kit into an old style boat like a Mountain Bat or T Canyon.

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Post by TaysideTom » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:47 am

I don't know whether this helps at all, but this is my experience of lightweight camping from last August. I was paddling in Serbia, and we had severe weight and volume restrictions, both because we were flying there with our kit and boats, and because we had fairly low volume kayaks anyway. I used a vango ultralite 200 tent. These are single skin, and a bit larger than a bivy tent, but still pack down very small. And they're reasonably cheap. If you look around you can generally find them on the internet for less than the RRP. I can't remember where I bought mine.

I used a two person one, which was big enough to get a fair proportion of my gear inside with me when the weather was bad, although if it was actually used for two people they'd need to be fairly intimate. The two person model is only 1cm bigger when packed than the 1 person, so you don't trade off much for the extra size (it goes down to 49x10cm, 1.4kg). It has (just) enough headroom for me to sit up in, which is great when it's raining all evening, and you have to stay inside. I was very happy with it. It looks a bit fussy, but it was easy enough to pitch even after a long and knackering day of paddling. There was sometimes a bit of condensation inside, but in nearly three weeks it was only really bad a couple of times. There are plenty of ventilation flaps (which contribute to the rather eccentric look of the thing). I haven't yet used it at home in Scotland, but will do so this coming year.

I also used a vango ultralite 100 sleeping bag. It can be squeezed down to a tiny packed size, and it was fine for warm climate camping, but I wouldn't ever use it in Scotland. Similarly, I used an Exped airmat. It was very comfortable, quick to inflate, and packs down to a 10x20cm cylinder, but I'd hesitate to use it at home. But I was very impressed with the comfort of the Exped mat, and have bought one of the down ones for use at home.

I managed to fit the exped mat into my thermarest chair kit, which was really useful. And the chair kit was rolled up and packed in with the tent, so it added very little bulk, while providing a welcome luxury.

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Post by Speciman » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:44 pm

TaysideTom wrote: And the chair kit was rolled up and packed in with the tent, so it added very little bulk, while providing a welcome luxury.
Top tip - I'll do this from now on.

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Post by PeterG » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:59 pm

Living without a tent or hammock (more on this below) is more about mental attitude than the technology. In 1980 I had a gap year in the Scottish Highlands wandering around the lochs and mountains on my own. From May onwards I dispensed with the tent and never missed it, always finding a comfy rock to crawl under, a cave or some dry heather. You just get used to being wet when it rains and dry when it doesn't.

Much more recently I dispensed with a tent on a tour of Jura. The caves although still there, didn't seem to warm and cosy as they used to and after a few wet days in caves and my bivvi bag I was really missing a tent. No sort of bivvi bag would have helped, but no doubt, after a couple of months I would have found it fine again.

So take an ultra lightweight single skin tent with room to cook under the porch and space to keep things dry inside.

If it is country with trees take a hammock and lightweight tarp. For the hammock some lightweight pertex 1.5m wide and 1m longer than you is all you need, assuming you have some rescue rope. Just screw up the two ends of the pertex sheet and tie the ropes on with a sheet bend:- an instant hammock. You can roll the pertex around you keeping off the wind and light rain. The tarp does not need to be very waterproof since you can tie it well above you and with sufficient pitch to shed water it will shield you. With all your kit on the ground under tarp and hammock it will stay dry as well and you can get at things from the hammock. A diamond shape with thin ropes tied sheetbend style on each angle works well. If you cut it slightly asymmetrically you have the spitting image of an expensive Hennesey. The first night might be restless but thereafter you sleep well.

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Post by The Drowned Fish » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:34 pm

Ol,

I've been pondering the same things questions about bivis as you. I "think" I'm gonna get one of these...

http://www.nemoequipment.com/nemo-gogo-tent

Anyone heard of them before or got any opinions on them?

Cheers
Simon

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Post by andreadawn » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:35 pm

That looks like a really ingenious bit of kit, but it still suffers from the same problem that all hooped bivy designs have. Namely, all you can really do in them is lie down.

At least with a bivy bag you can sit up with the bag wrapped around you and poke your head and arms out in order to cook breakfast. If you have a really roomy bag, then at a push you can also kneel or even stand up inside it whilst getting changed, although you may only succeed in providing entertainment for your friends.

Andrea.

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Post by ol » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:10 pm

That looks like a great bit of kit Simon, pretty versatile I think too.
Image
Ooh, its all gadgety and exciting.......

Andrea, you have a point about the sitting up etc, though at a push, I think you could just sit in this without the inflatable pole as if it were a normal bivi bag, obviously taking care not to rip it on the ground.

Looks like a really good option, not too heavy either at 1kg, which is fairly acceptable, though what with everything else.......

The cheapest I could find it was £150 at Spike Outdoors
Have you found anywhere cheaper Simon?

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Post by The Drowned Fish » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:43 pm

Thats the cheapest I've found it as well. Though I'm detecting a mission for tomorrow when work gets to much to cope with!

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Post by runswick2000 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:29 am

I got my bivi bag from these guys(it was grade 2 - one very slight 1/2 cm rip) for £15! It's made of real goretex, has no door or anything but does have a draw cord. When it rains I just turn it upside down and there is a flap that keeps the rain out. Incidentally I also buy ration packs from these guys which are superb value at £4.50 (I do all the cooking at home so boil in the bag is true escapism for me!)

I have to say, it is an acquired taste sleeping in the bivi but I've had no problems with condensation in this country and have slept very well in it. Oh, it weighs 750 grams!
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Post by The Drowned Fish » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:49 am

If you don't mind ordering from the states then you can pick it up for $169 (approx £85) here:

http://www.frugalbackpacker.com/epages/ ... cts/226474

I'll see if I can find how much shipping would cost.

Cheers
Simon

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Post by ol » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:12 pm

The Drowned Fish wrote:If you don't mind ordering from the states then you can pick it up for $169 (approx £85) here:
Well, I'm kind of hoping you don't find ordering from the States a lot cheaper Simon as I have bitten the bullet and ordered The Gogo from Spike outdoors.

It looks like a great little tent and I found some quite different reviews too...
1st Reviewer wrote:"The Nemo GoGo is simply a superb bit of kit - I have had mine 4 weeks now and am impressed. I am a ML and am always looking for really light kit which will do the business. The GoGo does all this and more. It is a one man bivvy but with space for my overnight daysack and me and the ability to cook from a position of shelter.
The inflatable airbeam provides a lightweight yet rigid support which has stood up to some testing winds, I have had no problems at all so far. Inflation takes 30 seconds and on one occasion I got inside to keep the wind a rain off. The swallowtail provides greater comfort but if you are in a hurry there is plenty of room to spare without it.
The new technology employer here certainly gets interest from passers by - I do make a lot of extra brews when solo-ing in the Welsh Hills for "visitors"!
So the summary: The GoGo weighs under a Kilo, (about the same as my basic Army Bivvy Bag). It inflates in seconds, provides ample comfortable space to live in, and with the exchange rate to the dollar was excellent value. Simply excellent."
and....
Another reviewer wrote:Great for the gallery, mediocre for the back country
Let me start by saying that I used this tent during a 6000km cycle tour through South America. I lived in it for the better part of 5 months in all manner of conditions. This tent has a number of good features. It looks cool, for one, the fly is set up in such a way that you can look at the stars while still remaining mostly covered, its light and it comes with great stakes- and its hard to find a good stake. These good features, however, are largely outweighed by the tent's flimsy construction and ill planned design. The sloping structure with no vent at the tail is a recipe for condensation accumulation. While sleeping in the desert, where the temperature changes considerably throughout the night, I would wake with my sleeping bag soaked in several ounces of water. In almost all other conditions the condensation was an everpresent nuisance, as well. In addition, the tent is not designed to be easily set up in real-world circumstances. In order to get the back of the tent off the ground like in the picture, it needs to be tied to something above it, if you aren't travelling with a bicycle, this could get rather tricky. A tree branch is a good fix, but even if you can find a good branch the ground often slopes up toward trees, and what if you are camping in the desert, tundra, amongst redwoods etc... It's also very difficult to make the tent taut because there are not loops mounted at mid-line on the side of the tent. I guess this would ruin the look of the tent. Lastly, in order to save weight they really skimped on the durability of the material, the bottom of my tent ripped several times on plants and gravel, and the stitching ripped on the back left corner while I was removing a steak. When I contacted them with my complaints about the material, mentioning their lifetime guarantee, they replied with a rather steep estimate for repairs. I guess this is what happens when RISD kids start making camping equipment. All-in-all, I think this is a great tent if you plan to sleep in an art gallery, but just make sure they have hooks on the ceiling.
Oh well, perhaps I should have ordered from the U.S, but anyway, looking forward to trying it out in the cold of the Welsh hills for practise...

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Post by Jim » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:19 pm

I used a 2-hoop bivi for several years when I was between tents. I never had a condensation issue in it, but it does have a wicking inner skin which presumably helps and it's main uses would have been spring and autumn rather than summer or winter. Weight I don't really know about because I have never really carried it or compared to a lightweight tent, it is certainly less bulky than a tent but I have always packed it in the boat with the poles separate.

I have always found it really cosy in a wide variety of situations. I did have the rear pole snap in force 8, bad luck I guess? I have also used it hoopless on rare occasions when I couldn't get any pegs in (that will be on the stony beach after moving off the clifftop in the force 8) and don't recall it being any worse for condensation.

I got the hoop bivi because whilst I am not claustrophobic, I do find it unpleasant groping around in the dark with something against my face trying to find the exit zip/cord. In the respect the hooped bivi was mostly OK, but I have occasionally lost track of both zips and become entangled in the mosi netting trying to find them, which can be a little stressful.

In the end I switched back to a tent - too many sea kayak trips with 3 days stormbound living in a bivi to avoid the wind and rain. At least in a tent you can sit up, stretch, put a brew on, strip an MSR a few times for therapy, etc. etc.

Bivi vs Hammock I can't do, but in dreach Scottish conditions I would prefer to have an all enclosing shelter like a tent or bivi, rather than something the wind can whistle through. I have experimented with tarps, they are good in many situations, but when it's wet and windy you need to wrap yourself up in it at ground level, at which point you find it doesn't breathe and produces condensation - loads of it!

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Post by waltfos » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:05 pm

Nemo would sound maybe better but here is one from down under new at £40 only 3000mm head tho

Not gortex

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bivvy-Bivi-Bivy-D ... p1638.m122

Walt

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Post by Mark R » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:18 pm

I'm fairly sure that several of the posters in this thread are looking for a bivvy for a WW paddling trip to India that I'm organising this Easter. This is an important distinction because it won't be a like a sea trip where living space and comfort are needed and available. Additionally, it will involve a fairly warm dry climate.

I personally wouldn't ever use a bivvy on a sea trip - why ignore all that packing space available? - so all that follows is from a WW expeditioning perspective.

- First point is what the bivvy is actually for. On this trip, it'd be for regular sleeping roadside from the bus with (hopefully) a few overnights on the riverbank. So it needs to be comfortable enough for sleeping but without the need for extra space (just chuck gear in the bus) and it needs to be small/light enough for packing in the boat.

- No bivvy bag is actually necessary for this - you could simply sleep out in a sleeping bag, and rain isn't too common in the Himalayas in spring. However, a decent tarp - e.g. http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetai ... AC0206&s=1 - is recommended - it can shelter lots at once of you from rain and condensation.

- I personally will be using a Goretex bivvy (I actually just upgraded to a hooped one) under a Golite tarp. I can justify the expense as I use it reasonably regularly, and in particular in places wetter and generally less comfortable than India in the spring (e.g. Latin American rainforest, where everything creeps and crawls and drips).

- If you're going to go down the bivvy bag route, really don't bother with anything other than Goretex - you'll end up wet and bedraggled from condensation, in which case you would have been better off sleeping without one, under a tarp! Another thing I appreciate about a decent Goretex bivvy is the ability to seal out the whole world, inclusing insects. Whatever you may have read, you can breathe just fine in a sealed Goretex bivvy. Comfort/claustrophobia can be an issue - in which case go for a hooped bivvy, allowing you to do some bedtime reading.

- The mini-tent-type shelters look good, but I haven't used any myself. Check that they are actually waterproof. On our (very rainy) Magpie trip, the American paddlers all lugged some along, only to find that they didn't keep rain out ... ha ha ha.


BTW India in the Spring last time - we slept out about half the time, enjoying non-cold nights. Some mist/condensation beside rivers in the morning. One night only, it rained (monsoon-style) - those out in the open got drenched, those in the open under tarps got very slightly wet, those in Goretex bivvies had a comfortable night (I slept through the whole thing).

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Rainy night in Quebec, on the Magpie River - Goretex bivvy and 1 dollar shower curtain used as tarp.

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Magpie River again, Goretex bivvies and decent tarps (from Golite).

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Magpie again - all the tents you see weren't actually waterproof!

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Central American rainforest (Rio Patria) after v.v.rainy night, including a flash flood which destroyed our original beach camp. Certainly appreciated the Goretex bivvy then.

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Tarps and sleeping bags only in Morocco, Easter 2007.

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Overnight on the River Tons, India, spring 2006 - myself in a Goretex bivvy, others all grouped snugly under a tarp in just sleeping bags.

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Bolivia - the daftest solution possible to the sleeping problem. Uncomfortable, bulky, and - despite this being the Amazon rainforest - the only place Kevin could properly erect it was between two Land Rovers.
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runswick2000
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Post by runswick2000 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:18 pm

Mark R wrote:I personally wouldn't ever use a bivvy on a sea trip
Course you would.

Indeed you have.

First time you got eaten alive near Chapman's Pool and second time we landed at 2.30 am at Alum bay and it saved a lot of arsing about with a tent.

On another. Totally unrelated note. I've just tipped my keyboard upside down and shaken it. It would appear that the contents of our toaster were in there!
Perhaps the greatest flaw in democracy is the idea that, if a majority of the population believes arrant nonsense, it somehow makes the nonsense true.

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:49 pm

You're absolutely right John, I had forgotten those two occasions completely. I should clarify!

Both were short local arrive-and-go overnights. I would always use a tent on anything longer for comfort, space, cooking etc.
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Post by Speciman » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:44 pm

Don't wish to take the thread off topic but am interested as to where you camped at Alum Bay. I've considered stopping there myself but the high tide seems to come right to the base of the cliffs. I've often wondered if the bottom corner (nearest the Needles) is doable.
Last edited by Speciman on Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mark R » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:52 pm

Yes, that's where we slept.
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