Lendal Kinetic Wings^

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Mark R
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Lendal Kinetic Wings^

Post by Mark R » Mon May 15, 2006 7:30 pm

I ordered a pair (in 2004!) and they arrived last week. I had a chance to try them out this weekend around the IOW, and think that I like them a lot. Purely based on the qualitative experience of picking them up and paddling in a straight line for 12 hours, they get thumbs up from me.

They felt a bit odd when I first used them, but after 15 minutes I had stopped noticing any difference. I think it helps that I had a relatively high-angled paddling style to start with.

They are 6 cm longer at each end as Lendal recommend, but this doesn't seem to inhibit paddling. Not sure why, all logic dictates that it should. I haven't grown 6 cm.

They are a bit sluggish for skulling and suchlike, but then they are an inch thick.

I couldn't be bothered to try rolling; it would have involved getting wet, I've never yet capsized a sea kayak unintentionally and frankly, it'll be amusing to keep the outcome as a surprise for when I do finally get my comeuppance.


Anyway...I just wanted them as they look sexy and shiny, and also as I really like going from #A to #B in a sea kayak with minimal deviation. I remain blissfully ignorant as to how they work or what I should be doing with them. What do I need to know? Should I be doing anything different?

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Post by Fast Pat » Mon May 15, 2006 8:27 pm

Mark

I’ve been using Kinetic Wings for over a year now and cannot fault them, but I had previously used “normal” (read as more extreme) when racing. The KW is a wonderful compromise.

A couple of points for you:

As you found, if you relax with the paddle and let it steer itself during the power phase, the paddle will steer itself in a wing stroke – wide and smooth, after about 15 minutes this feels most natural.

Like you, I had not fallen out of a sea kayak for some years, this all changed when I found myself in a cave on Anglesey when the High Speed Ferry went past, as I was bouncing of rocks without a helmet on - my first swim for some time quickly followed. As I found out later I can roll with them, but it is a little different. Don’t leave finding out how, until its too late, particularly with your love of solo paddling!

Have fun as you eat up the miles effortlessly, but be aware that you'll spend half your time lending them out to other who want to to try them, its only when you get a conventional paddle back in your hands that you'll truly appreciate the KW.

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Post by CCL » Mon May 15, 2006 10:53 pm

but be aware that you'll spend half your time lending them out to other who want to to try them
.....only if the others are left handed!!!

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Zoe Newsam
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Post by Zoe Newsam » Tue May 16, 2006 7:30 am

Oddly enough, there seems to be a disproportionately large number of 'lefties' in Mark's group of paddling buddies. Wierd.

So Mark, does this mean we get to see evenmore of the back end of your boat??!! ;0)

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Post by Bertie.. » Tue May 16, 2006 8:56 am

Zoe, I think you need to have a chat with Douglas about sea drogues, that'll help slow Mark down esp. now he's got a set of wings.. Just don't let him sit in a fast racing sea kayak!!

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Post by Dave Thomas » Tue May 16, 2006 9:40 am

zoenewsam wrote:So Mark, does this mean we get to see evenmore of the back end of your boat??!!
No - even less, as he disappears over the horizon!

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Post by tpage » Tue May 16, 2006 11:01 am

Why did you have to wait 2 years for them Mark?

I demoed a pair from Richard Cree for a weekend trip in the Sound of Luing area last year. It took me about 15 minutes to get the hang of them. Within 2 hours I was hooked.

Five star paddle strokes are not my thing, I go forward/backwards, turn and roll and these paddles allow you to do all that. I even took them through the corryvreckan that weekend. When I went to returned them to Richard that weekend- I couldnt part with them and so made him an offer.

Enjoy the paddles- they are superb for long distances. Tony

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Post by RichardCree » Tue May 16, 2006 5:50 pm

I did my 5 star with the kinetic wing, didnt make a hell of a differance. They are really easy to roll with if you have a decent roll and you dont finish with a scull type manouver loads of buoyancymakes setting up easy. Mark did you get straight or cranked?

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Tue May 16, 2006 5:57 pm

RichardCree wrote:Mark did you get straight or cranked?
Cranks, always cranks...
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Post by Douglas Wilcox » Wed May 17, 2006 8:02 pm

Been using mine on cranks since 2004. Fantastic. On a recent trip force 5 gusting 6 I was paling along dead relaxed. My friend Mike was having a bad time with the wind snatching his Nordkaps. On the recent Grey Dogs, Garvellachs, Corry trip, both Mike and Dave tried my Kinetik wings, they are now both converts.

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Thu May 18, 2006 9:14 pm

Further thought - the stupidly illogical* small fiddly allen key thing which comes with the paddles (they are splits)...what is that all about? Would it have been outlandishly clever to design a locking mechanism which is part of the paddle?




*It's small and fiddly, so I've probably already lost it.
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Post by Jim » Thu May 18, 2006 9:29 pm

MarkR wrote:Further thought - the stupidly illogical* small fiddly allen key thing which comes with the paddles (they are splits)...what is that all about? Would it have been outlandishly clever to design a locking mechanism which is part of the paddle?

*It's small and fiddly, so I've probably already lost it.
5 years on mine is still tied to the d-ring in my BA pocket (not the same BA though) whenever I look for it, it's not that easy to lose despite first appearances.

JIM

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Post by Dave Thomas » Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Ditto

System is mechanically simple, easy to clean/repair/replace, works very well and has built up an impressive record of support and acclaim from many paddlers - including many top names. I was rather sceptical about the concept when it was first introduced, but have been won over by that track record. I don't feel any great need to look for something 'better'.

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Post by Zoe Newsam » Fri May 19, 2006 1:03 am

Jim wrote: 5 years on mine is still tied to the d-ring in my BA pocket JIM
But I bet it's gone rusty & doesn't quite fit the hole anymore...

Mark G & I have about 5 allen keys between us, and we still have to hunt for one every time we paddle. I agree- make it part of the paddle, or at least use a material that doesn't rust...

Z

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Post by Dave Thomas » Fri May 19, 2006 7:46 am

A rub over of the allen key with steel wool and a wipe of WD40 is pretty minimalist as maintenance - at about the same frequency as squirting krab hinge pins with WD40 to check that they still pivot - and much less hassle than remembering to check that VHF, GPS and camera batteries are all charged!

But I agree a corrosion-resistant key would be better. I have just bought a Paddlock 4-way split main paddle. It happens to have the new-pattern Varijoint (sp?), purely because a paddle with said joint but otherwise matching my specification entirely was in stock and thus avoided the need for a special order. That joint is so much neater than its cumbersome screw-together predecessor that the minor inconvenience of a separate key is well worth it in my view.

But each to his/her own - diversity is a wonderful thing (as well as ensuring lively 'discussions' here!).

Dave Thomas

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Post by James F » Fri May 19, 2006 8:13 am

I've just bought some Lettman 'Nordic' Marathon wings for fitness training on the Thames. I was advised that the 'Nordic' model was also suitable for sea kayaking. I hope so.

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Post by Bertie.. » Fri May 19, 2006 8:46 am

MarkR wrote:*It's small and fiddly, so I've probably already lost it.
If you've got any money left after buying the paddles, why not just buy a handful of the keys and secure them in the various boats/BAs you have?

I did just that, for my four way splits - I now have a key in every boat, in my bouyancy aids, and one around the windscreen of my van - although I'm sure with even that many floating around I'm bound not to have one to hand when I need it.

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Post by Mark R » Fri May 19, 2006 10:57 am

Anyone tried to put together a pair of splits with the paddlok silliness, whilst in the water/ in cold difficult situations?
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Post by Owen » Fri May 19, 2006 11:21 am

MarkR wrote:Anyone tried to put together a pair of splits with the paddlok silliness, whilst in the water/ in cold difficult situations?
Why would you want to do that?

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Post by MikeB » Fri May 19, 2006 11:22 am

The basic Padlok will work fine without being locked. It's just like the old-fashioned sprung button version.

Thats not the case if you have the adjustable feather version though as the fittings will just rotate.

Mike.

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Post by Dave Thomas » Fri May 19, 2006 11:36 am

MikeB wrote:The basic Padlok will work fine without being locked. It's just like the old-fashioned sprung button version.
Quite so.
MikeB wrote:Thats not the case if you have the adjustable feather version though as the fittings will just rotate.
True, come to think of it - but how many people carry (or indeed bear the added expense) of variable feather splits? I know there is a good argument for them (eg a trip I recall where Mrs Rainsley drove off with Mark's LH paddles still in the car - necessitating a plea for a pair of LH splits!). It is ceratinly a very sound reason for avoiding using a varijoint as splits.

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Post by Geoff Seddon » Fri May 19, 2006 11:37 am

Yes. Four part splits for me, which have to do for white water and sea. On the sea boat they are part assembled and are OK to use without tightenning up the centre lock so aren't significantly more difficult to put together than old fashioned splits. I also have only one BA so the key is always tied into that. They are about three years old now and the key still fits, although it is rusty. Why they aren't made out of stainless steel I don't know.

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Post by Zoe Newsam » Fri May 19, 2006 11:38 am

Owen wrote:
MarkR wrote:Anyone tried to put together a pair of splits with the paddlok silliness, whilst in the water/ in cold difficult situations?
Why would you want to do that?
Erm, Owen, surely that's the point of spare splits? That you can use them when you've lost/ broken a paddle??? (Hence the conditions are likely to be pretty rubbish...)

But no, I haven't. I do tend, though, to just rotate the key a half to one turn so that I don't have to rotate it too far when I put them together.


I wouldn't want to use them without using the key to tighten- there'd be too much give in the shaft- but I suppose you could.

Mark, are yours the 'Varilock' version like mine? I just leave the feather stud done up, and use the RH/ LH one to fasten them.

Z

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Post by Bertie.. » Fri May 19, 2006 11:43 am

Owen,

was the challenge about why would you want to put together your splits in cold/rough water conditions - if so, Zoe has answered.

Or, was it why hang around in the cold/rough conditions if you could put them together without locking them down, then use them to get to somewhere more sheltered where you can lock them down properly?

I've only resorted to splits when sea kayaking twice. Both times on assessments/training, and neither time for real. In both cases, this was in a tidal race, and I wouldn't have worried about locking them down until I was out of the flow and in a more sheltered eddy.

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Post by MikeB » Fri May 19, 2006 11:50 am

zoenewsam wrote: I wouldn't want to use them without using the key to tighten- there'd be too much give in the shaft- but I suppose you could.
Not so - neglible give, if any. Locked is better, unlocked is fine. Mike.

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Post by Owen » Fri May 19, 2006 12:49 pm

Zoe and Bertie,

It just seem that your thinking up very contrived situations here.

If some one is in the water and has broken/lost their paddle get them out of the water and back in their boat first; then you can raft up and sort out their splits.

If your solo, then I could see you might need to put them together before you re-entre and roll. Personally I'd just use one half of my splits and roll up open boat style, then use a J stroke to get myself safe before faffing around with pumps and paddlocks. I know a few paddles who have a T-handle on one part of their splits for doing just this.

I just think that trying to assemble your splits whilst bobbing around in the water is a really silly idea.

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Post by Mark R » Fri May 19, 2006 1:00 pm

Owen wrote:It just seem that your thinking up very contrived situations here.
I am either in the water or have just re-entered my boat, without paddles, with or without company. Doesn't seem that contrived a situation.

I have spilts however....hooray!...but they need a fiddly tool to put them together...boo!
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Post by Jim » Fri May 19, 2006 1:21 pm

I've only ever assembled them in an emergency on the bank, although it was steep and rocky so may be classed as difficult conditions, it was on the Olympic peninsula in the summer so not exactly cold.

I have however paddled many miles with paddlok splits and have often re-tightened in them in small turbulent eddies and personally I reckon the harder job is going to be slotting it together which as others have said is little different to standard splits - it's one of those generic things, "has anybody managed to assemble any set of splits in difficult conditions?"

Personally I would tighten the joint asap because the buttons are not quite as secure as the normal type, however like Phil I assemble mine into 2-piece splits at the start of a sea trip so it's only the centre joint to deal with and I will generally be holding that joint together. It's the blades that sometimes slip out if not tightened, and the joints do sometimes settle a bit in the first quarter hour or so of use, hence I have often retightened and always recommend people to check the joints periodically - they are still a tighter fit than normal splits so it can be hard to detect a slight sliding or twisting from a settled joint unless you give each a chinese burn from time to time as a test.

I have no argument with the point that the screw down connector is not perfect, but it's way ahead of most of the alternatives. Andrea's taper joint looks like a good solution 9what paddle is it again?) although I am not sure if the toggle thing is designed as a locking mechanism or if the composite collar is properly designed to take an axial load in bearing if it is, although there shouldn't be much axial load.

Owen - it is quite possible to lose/break your paddles and still be upright in the boat and be cold and in difficult conditions..... Truly dificult condtions make rafting impossible, although then I would be swimming long before I could get my splits off the deck!

JIM

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Post by Bertie.. » Fri May 19, 2006 1:26 pm

Owen wrote:Zoe and Bertie,

It just seem that your thinking up very contrived situations here.
Owen, I should have mentioned I've also seen two people have paddles knocked out of their hands whilst playing in tidal races, one of whom was a very experienced L5 sea coach (who will absolutely remain nameless). In both cases, they hadn't even gone upside down, let alone be swimming.

Yes, a paddle leash would have prevented that from occurring, but in both cases the paddlers didn't have them on.

The thing with practicing and thinking about contrived situations is that one day it just might happen...

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Post by Zoe Newsam » Fri May 19, 2006 1:30 pm

Owen wrote:Zoe and Bertie,

It just seem that your thinking up very contrived situations here.

Personally I'd just use one half of my splits and roll up open boat style, then use a J stroke to get myself safe before faffing around with pumps and paddlocks.

Aren't you clever.

I'm not an open boater.

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