Petrel Play SG

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Pedro75
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Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Has anyone here built a Petrel Play SG? Been mulling this over for a couple of years now and very tempted to have a crack at it this spring.
Would be interested to hear any others experiences of the building process and the finished kayak.
https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/kay ... -and-glue/

I’ll be building from plans rather than kit.

Cheers

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by nickcrowhurst »

I haven't paddled one of these, but you should have a lot of fun in the Petrel Play, and stitch and glue is a quick and simple means of construction. The Petrel Play is a descendant of the famous line of kayaks originally designed by Mat Broze of Mariner Kayaks, USA, 35 years ago.
http://www.marinerkayaks.com/Coasterw.html

The Coaster rapidly achieved cult status, and has been an inspiration for several other designs. One in particular, with permission from Mariner Kayaks, is the F1 from Bryan Hansel of Cape Falcon Kayaks:
http://www.capefalconkayak.com/f1.html

Nick Schade credits the influence of the Coaster in the Petrel Play here: "I took a lot of inspiration from the old Mariner “Coaster” designed by the Broze brothers."
https://www.instructables.com/id/Making ... ood-Kayak/

With a history like that, and a highly skilled and talented designer like Nick Schade, you could hardly do better.
Nick.

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Thanks Nick. Some great info there. I’ve ordered the build manual and will take it from there.
Thanks,
Pete

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by nickcrowhurst »

I expect you've viewed this time-lapsed video of the construction. It's from a kit, but once you've cut the plywood to shape the procedure will be the same:

Nick.

Christian Rolfes
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Christian Rolfes »

Pedro75 wrote:Has anyone here built a Petrel Play SG? Been mulling this over for a couple of years now and very tempted to have a crack at it this spring.
Would be interested to hear any others experiences of the building process and the finished kayak.
https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/kay ... -and-glue/

I’ll be building from plans rather than kit.

Cheers
In the Netherlands has anyone build one, look on Facebook for Wolf Alex

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HUAWEI VNS-L31 met Tapatalk


Pitchpole
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pitchpole »

I am looking to build a cedar strip boat. Does anyone know of a good supplier for the wood?
Thanks
Dave

PlymouthDamo
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by PlymouthDamo »

Pitchpole wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:27 pm
I am looking to build a cedar strip boat. Does anyone know of a good supplier for the wood?
Thanks
Dave
When I built my strip boat, I took Nick Crowhurst's advice and made it from Paulownia, which is strong, but noticeably lighter than cedar. It was a good choice - I much prefer the lighter colour and obviously also greatly appreciate the reduced weight of the end product. I got it from Fyne Boats - cost me about £400 for enough wood to make a full-length sea kayak, all sawn into strips with bead and cove profile for easier assembly. Their website still has Paulownia on it, but doesn't mention pre-sawn strips, so it would be worth giving them a call to check. Since then, I know Nick has made the same boats out of cedar which he got a lot cheaper, but didn't come with bead and cove profile. He reckoned it wasn't too difficult to shape each strip to fit with a few careful passes of a block plane.

https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/supplies/wood/paulownia/

They sell cedar too, and although I've never bought it from them, I'd definitely recommend them as they're quick and efficient and always had the best prices when I was shopping around for other stuff - e.g. marine ply.

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pitchpole »

Thanks. I have found another supplier but more than you have mentioned. I'll contact them.
Dave

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Al S »

Hi,

Not the Play, but I've built a Petrel SG. Kit came from Fyne boats and I built it in their workshop so I received loads of superb help and advice.

My build blog is on their forum: https://forum.fyneboatkits.co.uk/viewtopic.php?id=479

and the launch: https://forum.fyneboatkits.co.uk/viewtopic.php?id=489

Absolutely love paddling her.

If you've any questions about the build I'd be more than happy to try to answer them.

Al

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Thanks Al,
I saw your boat on the fine kits forum a week or to ago. It looks great. I really like the paint, great colour choice!
I have been thinking about building the full size petrel since I got the manual a week or so ago. It looks great.
Cheers,
Pete

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Well, a little bit of progress - I’ve just ordered the plans! At this rate I might complete it by 2030.

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

.....and they’ve arrived! First job was to cut the long roll into separate sheets. Exciting stuff. Makes me feel 11 years old again.
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Anyone know a source of epoxy compatible wood stain/dye? I’m tempted to copy the black Petrel Play SG built by Joey Schott....
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by nickcrowhurst »


Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Great, thanks Nick.

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Jim
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Jim »

That looks quite nice and shiny!

Regular epoxy does not polish well, and is not well UV stabilised for a finish coat, obviously adding pigment will help UV stabilisation, but I have previously used clear XCR coating resin from easycomposites when I wanted a polishable stabilised clear finish. I notice they also do a black version of XCR which is meant as a base coat to use before applying carbon fibre sheathing (to ensure the natural colour of the whatever is being sheathed doesn't show through the weave of the cloth). It is not clear if this can be used on it's own as a top coat, or if it needs to have some coats of clear XCR over the top, but it is probably work asking that question (they usually reply fairly quickly) if you think it might suit your requirements better than a regular pigmented resin.
Of course another alternative would be to add black pigment to clear XCR resin, or to another resin designed for top coating (i.e. West 105 with 207 hardener).

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/res ... ecoat.html

Also consider using a foam brush for the final coating to massively reduce the lumps and bumps due to brush marks - I have not tried one with epoxy yet, but have had some pretty good results using one with polyester flowcoat recently (also pigmented black as it happens) - I still needed some sanding but that is partly because I had used a regular brush on previous coats.

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Thanks Jim, looks interesting. From reading Joey Schotts blog it seems he stained his panels black before assembly and then touched up any damage bits before coating with epoxy/glass and then varnishing. It does seem to give a nice deep shiny finish!

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pitchpole »

These things are works of art, this one is in MoMA New York

https://www.moma.org/collection/works/9 ... h_images=1

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

ive Just ordered all the materials for the hull/deck - ply, glass, resin, fillers etc. Hopefully it’ll all end up resembling something like a kayak. I’ve ordered all from Fyne boat kits. May have been able to save a bit shopping around but not having done this before would rather order from them. They’ve also been really quick to answer queries regarding quantities etc.
Cost including VAT and delivery £535

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

nickcrowhurst wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:59 pm
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/ ... ur-pigment
It's good stuff. I use it.
Small pot ordered for trial!

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by nickcrowhurst »

Pedro, a little goes a very long way. I aim for 5% at most, and these excellent scales are all I use for mixing pigment, resin and hardener:

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Well it’s a start. Woods here and I’ve made a bit! Part of the rear hatch recess. Thought I’d try cutting out some fiddly bits before filling the garage with floppy kayak.
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

A bit more progress. Two sheets halved and scarfed together, hull plans glued on and made a start cutting bits out.
Our garage is 18’ long. This kayak is 14’ long. Not sure I’d want to try building anything longer in there!
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Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Finished work a bit early today and managed to reach a milestone moment this evening. Hulls nearly stitched together. Finger and thumb are a bit sore now so that’ll do for today! There’s going to be a lot of pulling, pushing, prodding to get the seams tight but it’s great to see it starting to take shape.
I’ve also been pondering the finish. My scarf joints aren’t very pretty so the hull at least will be black. I might finish the deck bright if it comes out nice enough.
I’ve experimented with a base coat of pigmented epoxy with the glass and clear epoxy over the top. I think that should come out well with a couple of coats of varnish on top for uv protection. The black Petrel Play above was stained black with Behlen Solar Lux then sealed with epoxy before glassing so I’ll just be moving the pigment from the wood to the first layer of epoxy. Should still give a nice deep finish. Would appreciate any comments/suggestions
Cheers

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PlymouthDamo
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by PlymouthDamo »

She looks pretty enough to me - I'd definitely leave her in wood as that's a lot easier to keep looking good than a painted hull, as scratches disappear into the wood pattern. Also, whatever you think is wrong with your scarf joints will look like a feature once they're covered in gleaming varnish. (Been there, done that, with all sorts of clumsy mistakes on my boats and they never fail to look great after being turned into a 'feature' by sanding/varnishing.) That said, that black Petrel Play does look amazing.

One other point, although possibly a bit too late too help now. Although these boats are 'stitch and glue,' you don't actually need to do any stitching anymore. There's a much easier way which has the side benefit of not leaving loads of little epoxy-filled drill-holes in your hull. All you need to do is sit your panels in their supports and either get a mate to lend you an extra pair of hands, or use sticky tape to hold the seams together. Then use superglue and accelerant to stick them together - using dots of glue spaced 2 or 3 cm apart. This will be more than strong enough (in about 15 seconds) to hold the boat shape together whilst your permanent joints (epoxy and glass tape) are curing. It's also a lot easier when you come to do the final 'fairing' of the bottom seam, which is a critical part of making your boat perform, and sometimes requires repeated alterations, e.g. shaving bits off the panels or adding matchsticks to adjust the gap between panels.

I did my first boat with stitching, and like you, I found it a pain, literally, but you have to put it down as 'character building.'

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Beryl »

I’m just at the point of finishing my shrike. Much impressed by the ‘piano black’ finish on the cockpit rim assembly using the stuff Nick recommended at maximum 10%. So much so I’ve started to add it to the epoxy coats on the hull. Two thin coats rollered on is looking quite promising...
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Beryl »

The epoxy is as painted on, not smoothed or polished yet...
Image

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Some silica was added to thicken to paint-like thickness. The weave was hidden with one coat.
Growing old disgracefully

Pedro75
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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

PlymouthDamo wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:45 pm
She looks pretty enough to me - I'd definitely leave her in wood as that's a lot easier to keep looking good than a painted hull, as scratches disappear into the wood pattern. Also, whatever you think is wrong with your scarf joints will look like a feature once they're covered in gleaming varnish. (Been there, done that, with all sorts of clumsy mistakes on my boats and they never fail to look great after being turned into a 'feature' by sanding/varnishing.) That said, that black Petrel Play does look amazing.

One other point, although possibly a bit too late too help now. Although these boats are 'stitch and glue,' you don't actually need to do any stitching anymore. There's a much easier way which has the side benefit of not leaving loads of little epoxy-filled drill-holes in your hull. All you need to do is sit your panels in their supports and either get a mate to lend you an extra pair of hands, or use sticky tape to hold the seams together. Then use superglue and accelerant to stick them together - using dots of glue spaced 2 or 3 cm apart. This will be more than strong enough (in about 15 seconds) to hold the boat shape together whilst your permanent joints (epoxy and glass tape) are curing. It's also a lot easier when you come to do the final 'fairing' of the bottom seam, which is a critical part of making your boat perform, and sometimes requires repeated alterations, e.g. shaving bits off the panels or adding matchsticks to adjust the gap between panels.

I did my first boat with stitching, and like you, I found it a pain, literally, but you have to put it down as 'character building.'
Thanks for the info Damo. I’ll bear that in mind for number two! The manual for this boat shows using the stitches to get it all aligned and pulled together and then superglueing the seams so the stitches can be removed for epoxy fillets.
Good to hear my clangers might disappear under varnish. I tried to be clever with the scarf joint by scoring the edge of the scarf on each panel with a scalpel to try and get a sharp edge. It didn’t work and has left a line across all the panels about 5 mm from the joint!
The temptation of the black hull is quite strong and maybe the deck too. I think these Petrel Plays can look a bit too boxy left bright. Maybe two tone (black hull and bright deck) would be better or maybe even worse! I’ll have a think and experiment a bit.

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

Beryl wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:29 pm
The epoxy is as painted on, not smoothed or polished yet...
Image

Image


Some silica was added to thicken to paint-like thickness. The weave was hidden with one coat.
That’s looking good! An exciting stage to be at especially at this time of year! Got any pics of the hull?

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Re: Petrel Play SG

Post by Pedro75 »

If anyone’s interested here’s a link to the Joey Schotts two part build blog for the black Petrel Play SG

https://joeyschott.blogspot.com/2015/01 ... stuff.html
https://joeyschott.blogspot.com/2015/01 ... uff_6.html

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