The best spots?

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roo
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The best spots?

Post by roo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:07 pm

Dear Sea Kayakers,

I just had a cracking weekend mucking about in long boats around Anglesey.

Managed to find an amazing wild camping spot that fitted perfectly with our weather and tidal plans.

So, some idle curiosity.....

1) Is there a list of proven wild camping zones for Anglesey and elsewhere?
2) Is it better to not publish those spots? Which is perhaps why I found it so "challenging" to plan.
3) Even if publishing is the right thing, as it is with guidebooks, is it more fun to leave it for people to discover for themselves?

Monday thoughts......

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Owen » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:29 pm

1. No.

2. They wouldn't be wild if they were listed.

3. That's the whole point.

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Sean_soup » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm

1) There might be, but I don't think you'll find one available online.

2) Yes, it probably is. Quite aside from the legal situation in England and Wales, in practice if you pitch late, strike early and leave no trace (and avoid taking the piss by trying to camp in someone's front garden) it's very rarely a problem to camp 'wild' almost anywhere.

Trouble arises when places become too popular. Even in Scotland, where camping is a right most places. Publish a list of great spots and you might risk creating 'honeypots' that would become over-used, perhaps leading to enforcement of a 'no-camping' rule (as around Loch Lomond), or just generally disgusting conditions (as along bits of Glen Etive and various other excessively popular turd-strewn Scottish camping spots).

3) Yeah, maybe. Though people are often willing to share their secrets privately, even if they wouldn't be keen to publish. If you don't want to discover places yourself, a request for info on a site like this one might get you some responses by PM as well as whatever people are prepared to say on the forum. On Anglesey specifically, you could also ask around in the Paddler's Return.

(And Anglesey's many ridiculously capable and knowledgable coaches are all very generous with their knowledge if you manage to catch one of them while they're not busy looking after their clients. Better yet, be one of their clients for the day and pump them for information while you can!).

I can't help noticing you didn't say exactly where the amazing wild camping spot you found is. Well of course you didn't, good for you. ;-)

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Chris Bolton » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:17 pm

Anglesey, and indeed much of Wales, is a bit too busy / crowded to provide many wild camps. Places which are only readily accessible from water can work well. While I don't (for reasons above) want to publish the good spots, I can ask paddlers to respect one that looks good but where we have been specifically asked not to camp, and that's Porth Llanlleiana on the N coast. The landowners were very polite and explained that they have a house they rent out not far away and the picnic tables overlooking the beach are part of the facilities they advertise - fair enough, it's their land and their business.

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Sean_soup » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:35 am

Chris Bolton wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:17 pm
fair enough, it's their land and their business.
Well, yes, to a point. But plonking a couple of picnic benches down right next to a public right of way, a national trail no less, several hundred meters away and well outside the curtilage of the house and then leading renters of the house to believe they have an exclusive right of access seems a bit much.

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Chris Bolton » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:27 am

leading renters of the house to believe they have an exclusive right of access seems a bit much
Sorry, I didn't mean they'd said that, they're not claiming exclusive rights, just no camping. I don't think they have any objection to people using their benches for lunch (I did on Sunday).

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Re: The best spots?

Post by Sean_soup » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:38 am

No, that's cool, I understood that you were talking about camping not stopping for lunch.

I'm glad to hear they don't object to people using their benches, they'd be a tad out of order otherwise imo. Once you get outside the curtilage of a dwelling, I think it's only right and proper that landowners aren't entitled to treat all of their land as if it's their front garden.

I've stopped there for lunch once or twice too (never tried pitching a tent there), never met anyone there other than the odd walker passing through, so out of curiosity I had a look at their website. ( https://www.llanlliana.com )

They describe the place as a "luxury Country House set in 168 acres of private estate in a designated 'Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty' which includes a private beach, coastal cliff top walks, St Patricks Island and the most northern point of Wales."

It's a massive house with a massive garden - tons of space where their tenants can have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' (ain't that the legal term?) But that "private estate" and "private beach" does strike me as hinting to their customers that they're paying for exclusive access to the whole area (including the beach and even Ynys Badrig/Middle Mouse for goodness sake) which immediately rubs me up the wrong way tbh. Much of it is open land, it's crossed by a couple of public rights of way and the headland itself (the entire hill behind the old porcelain works up around the tower) is access land as well.

Moving in for the week would obviously be taking the piss, but honestly, if I were to pitch up there* late in the expectation of moving on early next morning I'd feel a wee bit miffed at being asked to move on, even though the law is clearly on their side. (I don't think it would be in Scotland, and I'm not sure it should be in Wales.)

*Not that I would. I'd more likely be round the corner at the Brickworks**.

**Oops, what a giveaway! ;-)

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Re: The best spots?

Post by seawolf856 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:40 pm

Brickworks = Butlins

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Re: The best spots?

Post by roo » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:28 am

Chris Bolton wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:17 pm
Anglesey, and indeed much of Wales, is a bit too busy / crowded to provide many wild camps. Places which are only readily accessible from water can work well. While I don't (for reasons above) want to publish the good spots, I can ask paddlers to respect one that looks good but where we have been specifically asked not to camp, and that's Porth Llanlleiana on the N coast. The landowners were very polite and explained that they have a house they rent out not far away and the picnic tables overlooking the beach are part of the facilities they advertise - fair enough, it's their land and their business.
This one is a lovely lunch spot - with considerations of the posts above, I'd say this was an arrive late and leave early site if you had to use it.

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Re: The best spots?

Post by roo » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 am

seawolf856 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:40 pm
Brickworks = Butlins
It's good though, if you arrive on a stormy day - very peaceful and usually sheltered I'd guess......

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Re: The best spots?

Post by seawolf856 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:58 pm

roo wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 am
seawolf856 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:40 pm
Brickworks = Butlins
It's good though, if you arrive on a stormy day - very peaceful and usually sheltered I'd guess......
Yeh, fair enough, it is an unusual and interesting spot to land for a butty and well sheltered if conditions are getting lively out at sea. Its just that everybody knows its there and loads of land lubbers camp there in the summer with loud music, massive camp fires, beer cans and human waste strewn all over the place. I wouldn't recommend it as a 'wild camping' spot.

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