Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

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simon64
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Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by simon64 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:49 pm

Looking at getting some info on new designs such as the new Northshore evolution range, Rockpool bach and the P&H virgo/glassversion of virgo, we know they are out there so why don’t the manufacturers have up to date info on their new models ? Seems odd that they would not be promoting these models asap.

Geoffroid
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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by Geoffroid » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:48 pm

I have asked P and H about this and they told me last year to check out Facebook. I told them I was not on Facebook, and all they could offer is that they hope to update their website in the future.

There are many sound reasons not to be on Facebook. I believed that before I read "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism", by Shoshana Zubbof. This book further strengthened my belief that Facebook is not engaged in improving the world. Same for Google and other big tech. Indeed, they are fundamentally changing what it means to be human, and altering behaviour for their profit.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by PhilBar » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:35 pm

Simon64 I couldn't agree more, very frustrating.
There are some pictures (well sections!) of the Northshore Evolution not on their website but on the Sea Kayak Oban website, crazy!

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by TheEcho » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:45 pm

I fear the root cause is that people go into the outdoors industry because they can’t or don’t want to sit in front of a desk fiddling with websites all day and would rather be outdoors than developing marketing strategies. But it is a necessary skill these days.

simon64
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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by simon64 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:45 pm

I am not on Facebook either and never will be, i understand 99.9% of people are but you would think a company trying to sell products and make money in 2019 would update their websites, can’t be that hard ? Or maybe it is....

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by SJD » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:34 pm

Seems like manufacturers are depending on word of mouth and other informal forms of notification more than any other means of marketing these days. Some may remember Valley and the release of the Gemini SP/ST, was it two years before they updated their website?

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by Graham T » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:59 am

Geoffraud agree with you if you look further and know about Darpa they are linked to and working within Facebook.
So as to not to hikack entirely I thought this had come up before and the answer was indeed that web sites were not something those who designed and built kayaks were either good or interested in particularly, and had to pay others to do the work, so have to pay a web designer, maybe that is expensive and not just a simple hand it over type thing either

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by jmmoxon » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:16 am

Although you don't need to be on FB to look at public pages. All commonly used internet browsers collect similar data too.

Just look at the activity on here, compared to Facebook nowadays to see that most kayakers use it

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by Jim » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Because most don't have permanent web development staff, someone has to squeeze it in between their other duties designing, manufacturing and shipping boats or dealing directly with customer queries, or they employ an external consultant on an occasional basis.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by simon64 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:47 pm

I wouldn’t expect them to have permanent IT staff, but would expect than when introducing a new product that they would try and market it, with the internet being the most obvious way with the widest audience.
I did have a reply from P&H regarding the Virgo, they are still finalising certain details such as recommended paddler weight ranges etc, but would still have expected a “coming soon” appearance on their website.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by Chris Bolton » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 pm

You don't need permanent IT staff to keep a website up to date - a content management system doesn't require IT expertise for adding content, only if you want to change the structure of the site. Facebook is basically a content management system, but with a mind of its own and it's own obscure objectives.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by sloegin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:52 pm

Hi Simon

As someone who deals with the manufacturers on a daily basis I understand your frustrations all too well. As Jim says, the people who build boats and design boats really just don't have the time/desire for staring at a computer and updating their websites.

As someone who runs a small business I more and more often come across folks who are used to dealing with big business and therefore apply all of the expectations they have of the service received from big business to all businesses. The 'distance' the internet creates during a transaction between buyer and seller makes us forget that not all companies are multi million dollar enterprises (nor do they want to be). When you buy something from my shop, I am the person who buys in the goods, puts them on the website, receives your order, packs your order, takes it to the post office, pays the VAT bill, does the accounting; but the expectation is that there is a whole team of folks in the a warehouse and a call centre. Even in my position I still have that expectation of companies I buy from and its simply unfair when it comes to a very small specialist industry.
Valley Sea Kayaks - I bet you think they are a large company churning out hundreds of boats a year? Valley is two owners and a handful of builders. The director of the company is also the person who does the invoices is also the person who does all of the marketing and is also the person who delivers the boats to the retailers and is also the person who runs the factory and also designs the boats and makes the moulds and tests the boats and deals with the suppliers etc etc etc. The internet dehumanises the whole process and changes our view point.

In regards your specific questions on the boats you mention:
There is very little internet info around on the New Northshore range because the range is not complete yet. There is no Atlantic Evolution LV yet, consequently they are waiting for this final boat to go into production before they spend the money on having the professional photographs done for the entire range and the website changed for the entire range. If you are subcontracting this work out its much cheaper to do it in one hit. As someone who sells these boats its frustrating but that's how they are doing it.

I can't speak with direct knowledge of Rockpools current marketing situation but Rockpool is essentially one very lovely owner and 2 or 3 boat builders. As far as Mike is concerned his business is the size he appears to want it, if he's making enough cash to keep himself happy then why add the stress?

In regards to P&H the new Virgo is just creeping out of the factory right now in its first production form and as Matt has told you they are working on the specs. Its Diolene/Kevlar/Carbon brother is called the 'Volan'. I was in the factory yesterday and they tell me its still just at the stage of the first couple of moulds being played with, in other words some weeks away.

Going back to your original post I fully understand and agree with and accept your sentiment, however I suspect that if you were a small business owner you'd understand why this happens.
North shore Ocean 17.6

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by nickcrowhurst » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:53 am

I have every sympathy with small business owners. Even the "simplest" website is liable to corruption, even those built with packages like Wix or WordPress, and then "someone" has to fix it or carry out any necessary updates.This, of course, will cost time and/or money. I have been working with computers both professionally and otherwise since 1965, and I know enough never to have been a member of Facebook or any similar sites. (Fortunately my son has no such scruples, and he maintains our website (CNCkayaks.com) and Facebook page.)
Any readers who are not computer-savvy, and have never seen the complexity of web page coding might like to right-click on any "simple" website page, select "inspect", and view the complexity thereby revealed.
One way a small business owner could deal with this is to have a very simple one page website containing little more than a brief description of the business and pointing the viewer to the Facebook page for more details.
The Facebook page could be defined as "Public". Even non-members of Facebook (like me) can still view the page. There will be a couple of messages on the screen saying "see more by logging in", but click on "not now" and you can view what you want on the top 75% of the screen. Click on a photo and that restriction ceases on that selection.
I have been doing this on most days in the past several years, mainly to see what "fruit of the loins" has been up to.
Nick.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by jamesl2play » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Maybe some Companies do not need to advertise.

I recently had the good fortune to visit both the Rockpool and the SKUK factories and they seem to be doing very well thanks.
The response by sloegin was spot on.

Some paddlers spend too much time looking for a boat to give them the 'magic solution' instead of just spending the time on learning how to paddle.

I bought my Cetus, picked it up from the factory having never sat in one, same with the last boat I have recently acquired.

When I had my business (15 yrs) I never advertised once.

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Re: Why don’t manufacturers update their websites ?

Post by No Kayak » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:16 pm

Updating websites with news and new products of itself isn't too hard. What's time consuming is producing product photos and artwork/graphics. A sea kayak photoshoot is not easy, either on land or water!

Without product images and any associated imagery, it's difficult to update a website with new products.

Doesn't really help the consumer much (or the dealers, to be fair), however I can see it from both sides.

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