Kayak without channels (chines)

Inland paddling
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frankthesurf
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Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by frankthesurf » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:08 pm

Having come back to kayaking after a 20 year layoff I've tried a couple of boats (Dagger Mamba, Diesel 75, Burn) and seem to struggle with them all when playing in stoppers.

I used to quite happily sit upright and balance OK to the point where I would happily throw my paddle away!!

However, all these boats tend to tip me in on the upstream or catch an edge,,,,, surprising!!!

Anyone suggest a boat with a smooth bottom.

PS My last boat was a rotobat which I happily paddled everywhere. Trouble is I can't get in one now!

Thx

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DaveBland
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by DaveBland » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:19 pm

Curse those edges!

So Jackson boats seem to be the most round as a rule. That's how they got their reputation as 'hole bait'.
Liquid Logic boats too, tend less edgy. Jefe and Stomper and remix come to mind.

Or... you could just lean a bit harder downstream :)

But you are right, different boats do behave very differently in stoppers. Pyranhas for example turn into bucking bronco rides, which is good if you are stuck, but less so if you are tying to relax.
dave

Rae1
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by Rae1 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:14 pm

I have just the same problem. Any rails, and I'm being tipped over just a bit more than I expected. The Axiom I took out last night caught me a few times, so much so that I'm on the lookout for a displacement hulled low volume boat. A Dagger RPM springs to mind.
I've got a LL Remix, which is again a displacement/semi dis. boat. I love it, can side surf (in small waves!) really easily, I cant do it in the Axiom for long as a bit of movement and I'm thrown around.
Maybe my poor technique, but I reckon it's mainly down to the rounded hull shape and no rails catching.
If anyone has a RPM Max for sale, please let me know.

frankthesurf
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by frankthesurf » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:02 pm

[quote=Rae1 post_id=813048 time=1538579679 user_id=75055]
I have just the same problem. Any rails, and I'm being tipped over just a bit more than I expected. The Axiom I took out last night caught me a few times, so much so that I'm on the lookout for a displacement hulled low volume boat. A Dagger RPM springs to mind.
I've got a LL Remix, which is again a displacement/semi dis. boat. I love it, can side surf (in small waves!) really easily, I cant do it in the Axiom for long as a bit of movement and I'm thrown around.
Maybe my poor technique, but I reckon it's mainly down to the rounded hull shape and no rails catching.
If anyone has a RPM Max for sale, please let me know.
[/quote]

This is exactly the problem I'm having !
I'll get in the queue for a RPM

Franky
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by Franky » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:12 pm

So which boats are more unstable in stoppers - those with soft edges or hard ones?

The boats that the OP mentions - I would have said that they vary considerably in their edges. The Mamba has soft edges, the Burn harder ones, and the Diesel very hard ones.

Hence I'm wondering if it's the edges that are the problem, or length and volume.

I've never found it easy to front-surf the Mamba (my boat). I can side-surf it easily enough though!

My other boat is a Jackson Rockstar. It's short, but has hard edges. I can front-surf it more easily than the Mamba, but then surfing is what it's designed for. I'd have thought that the longer a boat is, the more easily it gets spun sideways.

I found the Dagger GT much easier to surf than the Mamba. My feeling is that it is more to do with its low volume that the edges, but I could be wrong.

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DaveBland
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by DaveBland » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:29 pm

So I think the OP is talking side surfing "sitting" in stoppers. Old skull fun ;)

the more rounded/less edgy the hull, the smoother the ride. The more edge the more rodeo. But I think the height of the 'seam' [if there was one also matters].

As stated above it's a rough guide but KK and LL boats sit well.
dave

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Kayak without channels (chines)

Post by Adrian Cooper » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:44 pm

I agree that a round hulled boat will sit more stably in a stopper but I guess it is also more difficult to extricate.

Yes seam height but I think maybe also volume along the length. The Axiom mentioned earlier as difficult may be because the low volume stern is catching the flow, this might also happen in something like an RPM, maybe less so in a Burn.

As someone has moved the conversation on the surfing, I suspect shorter boats are not so much less easily spun but are more easy to keep in a straight line. I suspect a longer boat will keep straighter by itself.

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