Touring cag for climbing

Inland paddling
Post Reply
User avatar
RichA
Posts: 2836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 am

Touring cag for climbing

Post by RichA » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:12 am

I'm looking for a kayaking cag to use for winter climbing. I'm fed up of "waterproof and breathable" mountaineering jackets that leak at the wrists, neck, and just about anywhere else so I'm looking into touring cags. I've only used WW cags before so I'm a bit lost - advice would be very welcome. It's the sort of thing that would be worn as a waterproof layer when halfway up a cliff in the middle of winter in a blizzard at -10oC in 60mph winds. Something like this:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/media/images/87093.jpg

Here is a list of my needs. Does anything exist that matches it?

Waterproof (non-breathable would be fine).

A good way of sealing the neck from spindrift etc. A latex neck seal won't work (probably needs to be put on over a helmet, and latex is too fragile anyway), but some way of sealing up this big hole would be nice! The hood needs to be big enough to be worn over a helmet, ideally with some drawstrings etc to tighten the hood down and stop it blowing off in a storm. This sort of neck/collar seal looks good, and it has hood drawstrings too - will it fit on over a helmet though?
https://www.peakuk.com/image/cache/cata ... 0x1000.jpg

Big cuffs so I can get it on over big gloves, but that then tighten up with good sized velcro or similar. Latex won't work, or a simple elasticated cuff. It needs to be a big opening that can be closed down. The rougher/coarser the velcro the better - soft velcro doesn't work well in the snow. That soft coating manufacturers put on to create a better seal between neoprene and skin would be good.

Good articulation (to allow climbing with hands overhead without the back of the jacket riding up)

Drawstring/velcro etc around the waist to cinch it up would be good, but again it needs to be big and open to get it on over bulky clothing, and then be able to be cinched up. Simple elasticated waists will be difficult to use.

A normal style jacket with a zip down the front would be ideal, but pulling on over the head would be fine too.

Chest pockets would be good. I've seen some cags that have pockets, but also chest flaps that allow access to a PFD underneath - this would be a nice touch.
https://www.peakuk.com/jackets?product_id=141

I've had a quick browse and this might do the trick. Does it have full length sleeves? They look 3/4 in the images.
https://www.peakuk.com/jackets?product_id=94

I haven't got any shops near me to try anything on so it would need to be a well informed mail order gamble, returning it if necessary. All recommendations/suggestions would be welcome. Not necessarily Peak, they're just the ones I found first. Thanks!

LucyLou19
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:04 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by LucyLou19 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:20 pm

I think theres a damn good reason why this isnt already done, and its probably because it would be rediculously warm and you'd get hypothermia from your sweat.
I go winter mountaineering as well, in some pretty hectic conditions occasionally.

Im in ME Kakorum Salopette Pants (womens version), usually with a hiking trouser and occasionally a merino layer underneath. Top half is usually merino thin base layer (aldi), descent ME softshell , descent ME hardshell and belaying with ME Fitzroy or Citadel Belay jacket. I found gloves were key, i invested in good quality gloves and that solved a lot of my winter cold issue. Admittedly, i got given a lot of my ME kit when i worked at pyb.

Chris Bolton
Posts: 2680
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by Chris Bolton » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:55 pm

I've had a quick browse and this might do the trick. Does it have full length sleeves?
Your link is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of when I read your post. They are designed to be worn over the top of paddling clothing, so will be generously sized. The sleeves will definitely be full length (they probably look short because the cag is big) and that's confirmed by the description including wrist seals. Most brands are designed to go over the spraydeck as well, which I don't think would be be good in your case, so the Peak may be your best bet.

User avatar
RichA
Posts: 2836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 am

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by RichA » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:59 am

LucyLou19 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:20 pm
...
Thanks, but that's just about where I am in terms of kit. And to be fair I haven't said I want this for warmth, that aspect is fine and easily controlled. I want improvements so I'm willing to look outside the box. Can you honestly say you're 100% happy with your kit. Sweat though? How often do you sweat that much? And moisture in your clothes doesn't always come from perspiration. Many times when paddling I've been cold because of wet clothing, from water leaking in. I'm sure you can appreciate other sources of moisture when climbing.

A quote from Will Gadd, and a rule I always try to stick to: I don’t, and regard sweat as a failure in dressing properly, or a good time to change shirts.
Chris Bolton wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:55 pm
Most brands are designed to go over the spraydeck as well, which I don't think would be be good in your case, so the Peak may be your best bet.
Thanks Chris, good to know I'm on the right lines. I was wondering about going over a deck too. Most jackets you put on for additional warmth when stood still when climbing are long enough and big enough that they'll also cover your waist/harness. Sometimes this is annoying, so a short cag would be good. Mostly it's good though, so a long cag would probably be best actually.

Do the hoods on these cags fit over helmets?

Are there any other good places to look for this sort of kit, other than just Peak?

flashollie
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:07 am

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by flashollie » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:50 pm

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/

I use this for winter mountaineering in Scotland and abroad for 20 years. I also ski in it.
Salopettes and the special 6 shirt with a belay jacket for stances. You can alos get it made to mesaure if your an ofdd size. It does need to fit well.

It really does work. You can seal wrist neck etc very well with the velcro and while they get damp they stay warm and you can dry out very quickly. Wear it next to skin for best performance. The hoods are good as well to go over helmets.

User avatar
RichA
Posts: 2836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 am

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by RichA » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. I've used Buffalo kit quite a bit before - it's not what I'm looking for this time.

Sheepskin
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 8:36 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by Sheepskin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:18 pm

The stuff the mrt get issued with, proven kit and

User avatar
Chalky723
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:56 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by Chalky723 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:25 am

Why not just buy an old style rubberised nylon jacket.

Or a nautical type oilskin?

I think a cag would get too hot & sweaty - if it had a full length zip down the front I'd consider trying it though.

D
Jackson Nirvana, BMW F650GS...

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by PlymouthDamo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 pm

The nearest thing to what you're after that I've owned was a Decathlon cag that I bought in France similar to this:

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/s500-mens-j ... XcEALw_wcB

Doesn't have a hood though. Quality wasn't brilliant either - I've found that lightweight cags tend not to be that waterproof unless you spend big bucks. The following Goretex smocks are a lot more expensive, but would probably do a better job of keeping you dry:

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... mock-p7320

https://www.anglingactive.co.uk/daiwa-a ... smock.html

User avatar
RichA
Posts: 2836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 am

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by RichA » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:24 am

Thanks, they look worthy of further research. Smock seems to be a good word to search for. Now just to find one with a decent neck seal/baffle...

on the rocks
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by on the rocks » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:17 pm

I fear a spindrift avalanche on a Ben Nevis gulley would even get past the zip on my dry suit, and I wouldn’t want to be drowned in sweat on the walk in. It may be cheaper to get separate adequate jackets for each activity than one which would work for both?

Chris Bolton
Posts: 2680
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Touring cag for climbing

Post by Chris Bolton » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:29 pm

It might be worth finding someone who makes custom paddling gear, and specifying your exact requirements. I remember canyongear.co.uk used to do that kind of service, and even though the website now only mentions boat bags it might be worth asking. Also try rubberman.co.uk, he does custom made drysuits.

Post Reply