Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

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on the rocks
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Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by on the rocks » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:47 pm

After some maybe premature smugness managing my first roll in a Romany in a lake I’ve had a frustrating evening practicing in the pool. Are those little flat bottomed plastic boats meant to be a lot harder to roll than a sea kayak?

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by PlymouthDamo » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:51 pm

I don't think the shape of the boat makes a huge amount of difference - whether it's wide and flat or narrow and tubular, they should still go, albeit with varying degrees and stages of resistance. The two critical things I've found are (1) your feet/leg contact (for driving the boat round with your knee) and (2) the height/position of the back-band and/or cockpit rim. (If it's excessively restricting you from laying back or leaning from side to side, that will mess up your ability to do a standard, aft-finishing, roll.)

More often than not though, when you've just learned how to roll, any miniscule change can be enough to 'break the spell.' I've found that there is an inevitable cycle of learning it, then losing it, then gradually working out what you're doing wrong then getting it again and so on. I'd recommend learning the standard Greenland roll as, once properly learned, it becomes your easy get-out-of-jail-free card, allowing you to learn other rolls safe in the knowledge you can always get back up if you fail them.

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by Jim Potter » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:37 am

I would state that the through profile of a kayak does have an effect on my ability to roll it, having had similar challenges to you. We had very square liquid logic kayaks for pool sessions, and one plastic sea boat and the difference between the two were like night and day.

The easiest boats I found were old school rotobats, but I would recommend with any rolling practice having someone take a video clip of your successful/unsuccessful practice so you can spot the difference in your head positioning. Best of luck!

Jim

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by Aled » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:46 pm

on the rocks wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:47 pm
Are those little flat bottomed plastic boats meant to be a lot harder to roll than a sea kayak?
Generally, the wider and deeper the boat, the harder to roll - WW boats tend to be wider and deeper (around the cockpit) than sea kayaks. All that width (think buoyancy) has to be pulled under your hips...

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by Backwater » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 am

I really am no expert but I found the length of a sea kayak tends to stop the surface rotation putting more of the paddle lift into righting the kayak. In a WW boat I always end up pointing in a different direction and often failing the roll because much of the stroke goes into turning the direction of the boat not righting it. It's technique I guess but sea kayaks work better for me!

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:15 am

If you're in a boxy kayak you may find the hull interferes with the paddle as you come up. You need to push the back arm away from you momentarily at this stage, but the back arm must be pulled in at the start and end of the roll - something I call "choo-choo the back hand". Another approach is to keep the rear part of the paddle on top of the deck - which is easier to do with extended paddle "pawlata" technique.
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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by Jim » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:15 pm

Pool boats are normally easy to roll, being round bottomed, it sounds like your club is using playboats or river running boats in the pool, which makes sense if those are the kinds of boats members will be rolling in the wild... They may be harder to roll than sea kayaks!

Also sea kayaks sometimes don't sit flat upside down, meaning that if you roll in the right direction, you need to do less of a roll to get up. Rolling the other way is harder though. Could be you have always got lucky and been set up on the easier side in your sea kayak?

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by on the rocks » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 pm

Yep, flat bottomed boats in the pool, trying to roll a plank instead of a log, I’ll try and find a rounder bottomed boat for my next pool session

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Re: Rolling in a pool boat harder than a sea kayak?

Post by Grian » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:05 pm

Romanys also seem relatively easy to roll among sea boat varieties, though I may eat those words real soon!

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