Krab on a Throwline?

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Liam1909
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Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Liam1909 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:23 am

Recently got back from paddling in the alps, and a few of the lads there had a krab attached to the end of their throwline.

Whats peoples opinion on this? Is it worth doing or is the risk too great?

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Chalky723
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chalky723 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:11 pm

I have a krab on mine, sometimes i take it off before throwing, other times not. Depends how much time I've got from getting out of the boat. If it's thrown on the bag it's screwed shut, so not going to catch anything.

D
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by MaverickvRS » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:10 am

Chalky723 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:11 pm
I have a krab on mine, sometimes i take it off before throwing, other times not. Depends how much time I've got from getting out of the boat. If it's thrown on the bag it's screwed shut, so not going to catch anything.

D
Won't catch anything, just knock the recipient unconscious? ;)

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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chas C » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:06 pm

When I did my 5* few years ago we'd all agreed that when teaching new paddlers or early * rescues then leaving the krab off to avoid injuries was best.

However when paddling with your peers its probably better to have something that can be used assuming the recipient knows what's coming, if they are unable to see the line/bag being thrown then probably best to remove the krab.

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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chalky723 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:35 pm

MaverickvRS wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:10 am
Won't catch anything, just knock the recipient unconscious? ;)
Nah, it's only a ickle one - gives them a good incentive to catch the bloody bag though!

D
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by DaveBland » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:59 pm

I fill mine with rocks. Makes it easier to hit em in in the head with.
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by jmmoxon » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:37 pm

Bag should be thrown beyond the swimmer anyway, if they grab hold of it they'll just run out to the end...

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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Ian Dallaway » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:35 am

jmmoxon wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:37 pm
Bag should be thrown beyond the swimmer anyway, if they grab hold of it they'll just run out to the end...

Mike
That isn't always the case. In stoppers for instance you are looking to hit the swimmer with the bag. the rope alone is too easy to miss and sinks quickly in the aerated water.

A better idea with the karabiner is to attach it to the rope inside the bag. It is always there then and can be used for equipment recovery. When the rope is used to rescue a swimmer the krab is padded by the bag and won't hurt anyone.

Either clove hitch it inside the bag next to the knot, or with the Palm bags you can tie it to the rope and clip to the tape or ring. (The Palm setup gives you the option to remove the bag from the end of the rope, leaving just the krab on the end.) I've had it this way for a number of years and it works very well in all scenarios.
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by andypagett » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:51 am

I keep a krab on my throwline. That way I always have a krab and a throwline together if I need them (e.g. in a hurry e.g. live bait). Of course if I'm setting safety on the bank I'll remove the krab. If I'm ever in a situation where I have to use the throwline but don't have time to remove the krab, getting hit in the face by a krab is probably less of a concern to the victim than whatever alternative meant I didn't have the time.

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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chalky723 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:36 pm

andypagett wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:51 am
I keep a krab on my throwline. That way I always have a krab and a throwline together if I need them (e.g. in a hurry e.g. live bait). Of course if I'm setting safety on the bank I'll remove the krab. If I'm ever in a situation where I have to use the throwline but don't have time to remove the krab, getting hit in the face by a krab is probably less of a concern to the victim than whatever alternative meant I didn't have the time.
Yeah, that's exactly my thinking...

D
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Liam1909 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:48 pm

Thanks guys

on that note, what kind of Krab do you use?
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Ian Dallaway » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:29 pm

Liam1909 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:48 pm
Thanks guys

on that note, what kind of Krab do you use?
The ideal karabiner is a large HMS screw lock type - larger the better ideally, as then it is much easier to use with cold hands and it will pass a knot if you need to set up a tension diagonal with 2 ropes joined together. You ideally need to carry at least 2 of them per person, so that within the group you have enough to set up a pulley or pig-rig system if required.

The thing with large karabiners is they can potentially hurt the swimmer if the rescuer is careless enough to leave it clipped to the end of the bag when throwing it.

Maybe this is a big advert for doing a WWS&R course where you get to practice these skills in a safer environment, and better understand the reasoning behind such practices.
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by StillNewish » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:17 pm

Chalky723 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:36 pm
andypagett wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:51 am
I keep a krab on my throwline. That way I always have a krab and a throwline together if I need them (e.g. in a hurry e.g. live bait). Of course if I'm setting safety on the bank I'll remove the krab. If I'm ever in a situation where I have to use the throwline but don't have time to remove the krab, getting hit in the face by a krab is probably less of a concern to the victim than whatever alternative meant I didn't have the time.
Yeah, that's exactly my thinking...

D
Yep, I'd agree with this. If there's time, it can always be removed before throwing, but if someone is getting a beating they'd rather have a line with a crab on it, quickly, than not have one...

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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chalky723 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Liam1909 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:48 pm
on that note, what kind of Krab do you use?
The one on the throwbag is a small/medium screwgate one. I have a large HMS screwgate on my sling in the front pocket, a large spring gate in there too. A large HMS screwgate& a normal screwgate in a side pocket (other side is a mars bar) and there are normally a couple of normal size screwgates securing kit in the back of the boat....

D
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Liam1909 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Thanks for all the advice, hopefully booking on a WWS&R course sooner rather than later
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm

Ian Dallaway wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:35 am
A better idea with the karabiner is to attach it to the rope inside the bag. It is always there then and can be used for equipment recovery. When the rope is used to rescue a swimmer the krab is padded by the bag and won't hurt anyone.

Either clove hitch it inside the bag next to the knot, or with the Palm bags you can tie it to the rope and clip to the tape or ring. (The Palm setup gives you the option to remove the bag from the end of the rope, leaving just the krab on the end.) I've had it this way for a number of years and it works very well in all scenarios.
Interesting idea - do you have any pictures or video to illustrate the point?
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Chalky723 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:18 pm

I tried it with one of my palm throwbags, but I found the karabiner more useful on the outside - you can clip it into the boat etc....

D
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Re: Krab on a Throwline?

Post by Ian Dallaway » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:36 am

TechnoEngineer wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm
Ian Dallaway wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:35 am
A better idea with the karabiner is to attach it to the rope inside the bag. It is always there then and can be used for equipment recovery. When the rope is used to rescue a swimmer the krab is padded by the bag and won't hurt anyone.

Either clove hitch it inside the bag next to the knot, or with the Palm bags you can tie it to the rope and clip to the tape or ring. (The Palm setup gives you the option to remove the bag from the end of the rope, leaving just the krab on the end.) I've had it this way for a number of years and it works very well in all scenarios.
Interesting idea - do you have any pictures or video to illustrate the point?
Sorry, I don't have any pictures to hand to show my setup. It's fairly easy to do though... With the modern Palm throwlines, untie the rope from the bag and tie it to a suitable locking karabiner instead (your choice of knot, but I chose a bowline with a good stopper knot as it is easily undoable, for when I want a totally clean rope for other rescue scenarios). Then simply clip the krab into where the rope was originally tied into the bag.

It makes for a very versatile setup, as you can remove the bag totally for live bait rescues, or you can reach inside the bag to clip the krab to a boat for equipment retrieval. A simple throwline rescue works normally, without the added fear of causing injury to a swimmer by the karabiner as it is safely inside the bag.

I store my rope in front of the seat in a Pyranha boat, using the supplied fastex buckle (most other boats have a similar storage area).
Ian

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