Yet another tippy Quest!^

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andreadawn
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Yet another tippy Quest!^

Post by andreadawn » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:35 pm

Like many folk, I find my Quest a bit tippy when unladen. I'd always assumed that this was because my other boat, a Feathercraft K1, which I paddle more often, is extremely stable by comparison.

Clearly I'm not the only one though who wobbles about in the Quest when it's empty. I'm not particularly heavy, but I do have quite long legs and big feet, and I like to have plenty of room to wiggle them about. I always felt far too cramped in the Skerray RMX I started out with.

I do feel that the seat in my Quest is too high though. Elsewhere, in the For Sale section, mention is made of an alternative glass seat option which improves the stability, presumably by lowering the centre of gravity.

There's nothing on the P & H website about such an option. Anyone know much about it? Can it be retro fitted? More to the point, can it be retro fitted by someone who's totally useless at DIY?

Any info greatly appreciated.

Andrea.

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Post by RichardCree » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:43 pm

2 options

I think from memory that when the seat changed from glass to plastic the cockpit rim was altered, this is what the glass seat attached to. try taking out the plastic seat, pop over to Keswick buy a foam seat from Knoydart, it will feel very low, cut a base from carry mat to raise you up again as much as you need and a little bit more cutting to pad the hips. will be a very comfy seat, but you will still be to light for the boat.

Or

Sell the boat and buy one that you are happy with.

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:07 pm

The glass seat in mine is probably about 2 cms from the hull at the point where the "buttock curves" are. Don't know if the plastic seat is different, but I hear tell it is.

Richard's suggestion is a possible fix if you do feel the sea tis too high - but also worth talking to P&H and asking for supply of a glass seat pan - replacement is simple. Two hex headed bolts and nuts. You'll need an allen key and a suitable spanner.

I need to be circumspect here of course, but the Quest is a big boat! Perhaps also think about adding some ballast when day paddling??

Mike.

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:15 pm

Worth noting that there is a 'Quest LV' now on release, presumably for teeny weeny diddy people.
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Post by Dave Thomas » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 pm

If it is anything like the NDK 'LV' boats, it may have the same hull mould but a lower deck mould. In which case it would be easier for a smaller person to 'brace' in the cockpit but the hull displacement (of water) v weight - which, apart from seat height, is all that will affect 'tippiness' - would be the same.

Dave Thomas

andreadawn
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Post by andreadawn » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:30 pm

MikeB wrote:I need to be circumspect here of course, but the Quest is a big boat! Perhaps also think about adding some ballast when day paddling??
When I bought it I was looking for an expedition boat. Having paddled a heavily laden one for a day I decided it was the boat for me. I particularly liked the spacious cockpit giving me plenty of "wiggle" room. And the fact that it would carry loads of stuff below deck.
I may be a bit light for it, but I feel size-wise it's about right for me.

Since then, for personal reasons, I've not been able to do any multi day trips, so have used it for day tripping. I usually add some ballast, which helps.

I'm not suggesting the boat is excessively tippy; merely that there are occasions when I wish it would behave as it does when laden. Apart from that, I like it a lot.

And I would hope in the not too distant future, that I would be able to do a few longer trips in it. Hence, I'm reluctant to part with it. I'd just like to make it a bit more friendly on those occasions when I want to take it out on day trips.

Andrea.

andreadawn
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Post by andreadawn » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:33 pm

MarkR wrote:Worth noting that there is a 'Quest LV' now on release, presumably for teeny weeny diddy people.
Sadly, I'm not a teeny weeny diddy person!

Andrea.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Post by Douglas Wilcox » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:37 pm

The plastic seat in more recent Quests is higher than the older glass seat. Our team have both types and the new seat does make the Quest feel tippy. You cannot retrofit the glass seat (though you can still request it on new build boats) as the cockpit rim laks its mounting lugs.

My friend Mike who has had two Quests , with each type of sea,t has removed his plastic seat and is fitting a lower foam seat. I think it's a great shame that the Quest's stability has been spoiled by this improvement.

At 85 kg, I have no trouble using the Quest as a fast but not very manouverable day boat. The Quest is an outstanding expedition boat. I spent 9 days last summer on a self supported trip to the west coast of the Outer Hebrides. It was fast, comfortable and handled some pretty serious conditions with ease.

I aslo like the Nordkapp Jubilee when loaded but, even with my weight, I do not like it unloaded when it's windy. The Nordkapp LV well that's a different story, it is an LV hull and is just sublime.

Douglas :o)

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Post by andreadawn » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:13 am

Thanks for your comments so far.

Having just been out to the garage and sat in all three boats, I'm amazed that I ever managed to fit into the Skerray. My toes were left jammed tightly against the underside of the deck. Very uncomfy.

Putting aside weight issues (I'm, ahem, 75 kg, but don't tell anyone), I'm certain the cockpit size is right for me. I'm 5'11" tall. I do not roll around inside it but actually feel quite snug whilst still being able to stretch my legs if I want. It actually feels a very small boat compared to the K1.

Anyway, I like the shape of the seat liner in the Quest. If I simply use Karrimat to make a new base and sides for this, will it be OK to glue this directly to the hull or would that put too much stress on it?

Andrea.

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:30 pm

I'm not entirely sure what you mean about re-using the liner, but if you are presenting the hull with a solid area of foam (be it karrimat or microcell foam) to spread the load rather than the sharp edges of a trimmed palstic seat, there should be no problem with stress issues - it will be much the same as gluing a foam seat in there.

If you need to fill under the seat pan like this don't bother with expanding foam - it's hygroscopic and will cause you problems in the future, just use minicell foam (or layers of karrimat glued together) and a sharp carving knife to shape it. Pelagic may be able to show you how not to slice your tendons when working with a carving knife on foam, but I'm not sure :D

JIM

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Gareth Plas
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Post by Gareth Plas » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:30 pm

Andrea

I was in touch with P and H a few weeks ago about a different seat being fitted at the factory. The reason for that was because I had been told the new seats and backrest are rubbish.

P and H will fit a composite seat in, it costs about £40 extra, bu whether that can be done retro.....................?

I trialled a new Quest last weekend together with an Aquanaut

This was on Llyn Peris at Llanberis. It was calm and like a mirror, I got into the Quest, I couldn't keep it still. Now I am a beginner ish but I started to doubt my own basic ability. Even after an hour I had not settled, and I made my mind up that I could not live with that or even grow into it.

I got into the Valley thinking it would be more of the same.......... and bingo, decided there that it was the one for me.

Shame really, I had heard a lot of good things about the Quest, had one lined up second hand even.

At my level I needed to depend on a bit more stability.

Oh, that seat on the Quest hurt too!

Gareth

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Gareth Plas
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Post by Gareth Plas » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:30 pm

Andrea

I was in touch with P and H a few weeks ago about a different seat being fitted at the factory. The reason for that was because I had been told the new seats and backrest are rubbish.

P and H will fit a composite seat in, it costs about £40 extra, bu whether that can be done retro.....................?

I trialled a new Quest last weekend together with an Aquanaut

This was on Llyn Peris at Llanberis. It was calm and like a mirror, I got into the Quest, I couldn't keep it still. Now I am a beginner ish but I started to doubt my own basic ability. Even after an hour I had not settled, and I made my mind up that I could not live with that or even grow into it.

I got into the Valley thinking it would be more of the same.......... and bingo, decided there that it was the one for me.

Shame really, I had heard a lot of good things about the Quest, had one lined up second hand even.

At my level I needed to depend on a bit more stability.

Oh, that seat on the Quest hurt too!

Gareth

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Douglas Wilcox
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Post by Douglas Wilcox » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:05 pm

People should not think of the Quest being inherently tippy. I take a lot of photographs on the water and my Quest is one of the most stable platforms for photography of all the boats I ever have sat in. My Quest is a 2005 model and as special order was fitted with the original low grp seat at the time of manufacture. Yes the backrest was not particularly good, it folded forward under your bum in a wet reentry, but I easily fitted a Dagger back band in its place. Anyone with the later plastic seat could fit a lower foam seat pan and bring back the designer's original stability.

The Valley Aquanaut is a nice boat and there will be a review of it in the April Paddles. It is a very stable, large volume boat and even light people do not have to weigh it down with gear to enjoy its stability. In the photograph of the underhull shapes that are included in the above article of a Quest, Nordkapp LV, Aquanaut and Alaw you will see that the Aquanaut is a different shape to the others. The others have maximum beam at the cockpit but taper quickly to the ends. The Aquanaut is parallel sided and carries its width far forward and aft. I think this has considerable effect on its top speed. Maximum burst speed (like when you are trying to get round a headland against the tide) was 10.5km/hr in the Quest and 8.6km/hr in the Aquanaut.

So yes the Aquanaut is remarkably stable, but this comes at a cost in terms of speed (and also handling in some wave conditions). Let's consider an analogy. A trike is much more stable than a bike. But most people quickly learn to ride a bike and would never consider buying a trike.

Perhaps it would be best to get some experience of kayaking in different boats before committing to an expensive composite purchase. I have frequently praised the Quest in these pages but I now know that my paddling skill has progressed far more quickly in a Rockpool Alaw than it did in the Quest. In the Quest I used to wonder what the fuss about bow rudders was all about. In the Alaw it is a very effective and frequently used stroke to turn quickly which I learned very easily.

I think it is very difficult to decide from short demo which is the best boat for your current and future needs.

Douglas

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Post by andreadawn » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:05 am

Douglas Wilcox wrote:I think it is very difficult to decide from short demo which is the best boat for your current and future needs.
I paddled somebody else's fully laden Quest for a whole day on an actual trip, which was what sold it to me in the first place. It felt very predictable, which was what I wanted. The owner had modified the seat in some way, although said this was due to comfort rather than handling so I don't know precisely how his seat differed to mine. What I didn't do at the time was to paddle it empty, since that wasn't what I had in mind for it.

At the moment, I'm (temporarily) using it only for day trips due to personal circumstances, something I hope to change by next year.

Anyway, it's sat in the lounge now whilst I contemplate cutting the seat out. I get very anxious about taking a blade to something that was so expensive. It was bad enough drilling the hole for the pump outlet!

Andrea.

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Mike Marshall
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Tippy Quest Solution?

Post by Mike Marshall » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:27 pm

If you have already purchased the boat, then you must try some ballast in the hatches. This will "settle" the boat down when not paddling with expedition/camping gear, particularly if you are on the "light side" for the boat. Get some Water containers, fill them up when you get to the waters edge, either fit some strap holders or wedge them in there somehow. Even if they are not strapped in, they should not prevent a roll.
Then you have the best of both worlds.
The Quest is rated as one of the best designs in the world, I have one on my shopping list for this year. I have no doubt on its performance or overall stability.
Bear in mind, even ships are ballasted.

Regards
Mike Marshall

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Post by Pelagic » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:07 am

Bear in mind, even ships are ballasted.
But Dingys, canoes and kayaks are not, normally.
Bear in mind that loading a boat is not ballast, in order to qualify as such it would need to be carried below the waterline.
Which is one of the reasons why lowering your seat works.

Jim, jump in wherever you want here!

Phil

Geoff told me not to post after the pub..........................................

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Post by andreadawn » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:57 am

OK, seat modification number one complete.

I managed to wiggle the whole seat out intact so was able to have a proper look at it. I was quite surprised at the depth of the foam padding underneath. Also I didn't like the very high front edge of the seat.

Reducing the thickness of the foam helped a bit but left the buttock cut-outs sat on the bottom of the boat with little padding.

Eventually I decided to cut out the bottom of the seat, leaving the sides and back intact. I replaced the bottom with some karrimat and added some padding at the sides to stop the whole thing deforming as it was now less rigid than originally. I then replaced the original seat liner and backstrap and added some further padding at the top of the side bits where it attatches to the deck, as I now had a gap of about 1.5 cm there.

So, now I have a seat that is lower than the original by about 1.5 cm and feels more comfy as I have substantially more foam under my bum. And the front edge no longer cuts into my thighs when I rest my legs flat against the hull.

Unfortunately I won't have the chance to test it till the middle of next week.

Incidentally, on the weight front, P & H give the optimal load for the Quest as 70 - 126 kg. With my usual day kit, my boat is usually carrying about 85 kg.

Andrea.

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:02 am

I was going to let it go Phil, but if you really want....!

Not all ships are ballasted, warships for example are designed not to use ballast (when built and the VCG is discovered to be too high they end up with some....). Cargo ships only operate in ballast when they have no cargo. Cargo as Phil says is not ballast, it's earning it's passage! Ballast is costly (takes time to pump it into and out of tanks, and added weight increases fuel consumption, although technically the sea water itself is free), but often necessary to maintain stability when unladen, or occasionally to get sufficient propellor immersion for efficient propulsion in an otherwise stable unladen ship. Where possible ship brokers will try to get a return cargo whenever possible - this usually isn't possible for tankers, but for bulkers, container ships, reefers, and ferries it is always the aim!

Ballast is also used to alter trim - most ships are fastest (most efficient) trimmed level or slightly by the stern, some (PSVs spring to mind) are better trimmed by the head. For trimming the "peak" tanks are usually used (forepeak and aftpeak, right in the very ends in otherwise unusable space). Generally the trim changes as fuel oil is used up, and ballast will be taken on to return the ship to near ideal trim. Heel is usually dealt with by distributing the cargo or fuel in an appropriate way.

With current anti-pollution regulations it is highly desirable (mandatory for newbuild) for tankers to have a double hull, that is the cargo oil tanks boundaries are some distance inboard of the external hull of the ship. This leaves double bottom and wing spaces which are generally assigned to ballast, although small quantities of ships oil can be carried in the double bottom region. The idea of this is that in the event of a collision only the outer hull should be punctured preventing outflow of cargo oil, but also you have only lost a relatively small amount of buoyancy. To reduce the heel from this damage you would typically flood the opposite tank ASAP unless it is cross connected in which case gravity will do the job for you.

The other place that sea water is sometimes carried is in roll stabilisation tanks. There are different designs, but generally the idea is to have water "sloshing" around in a tank full of baffles that slow it down such that it moves from side to side out of phase with the ships rolling motion and thus counters it. Clearly getting it in phase by mistake could lead to harmonic problems! Some designs don't even bother with such details and simply reduce stability in order to make the rolling more gentle!

Permanent ballast (pig iron, or lead, usually coated in a polymer these days) is only required where the design is bad and has insufficient stability, or in sailing vessels. Sailing vessels need a lot more ballast than to counter the heeling levers from the rig, in modern yachts it mainly goes in the keel as lead, and sometimes in water tanks (some even pump from side to side as necessary) in older sailing ships it's often put in the bilges out of the way. In exceptional cases of muck ups some ships may need to carry water ballast all the time for stability reasons but these are rare!

So to summarise:
Ballast in ships is undesirable and avoided wherever possible by loading sufficient cargo low enough.
To be most efficient ballast should be as low as possible, but in fact most ballast tanks (peak and wings) extend to the bulkhead deck which is always above the outside waterline (freeboard, the loadline or plimsoll mark is measured down from this deck). Ballast tanks are almost always pressed full to eliminate a free surface which reduces stability.

Ballasting sea kayaks is therefore undesirable, but we can't all afford a Nordkapp LV or an Alaw for messing about on day/weekend trips!
The key points to ballasting would be:
> Experiment, find out just how much you need to get the feel you like.
> Secure it, if it rolls around it will reduce stability! Water bottles should be full to avoid free surface, things like wine box bladders and platypus bottles are great because they conform to the hull and don't roll much.
> Consider filling with useful but non-essential bits and pieces first - for a day out with Douglas I made sufficient ballast from my camera gear, emergency gear and lunch - take a stove for a hot brew as well as a flask!
> Also consider making sandbags, possibly tailored to your hull - they won't roll and are heavy!
> Try and keep the ballast out of the ends! This is an issue of inertia - themore weight you have in the ends the slower the boat will turn and rise and dip, but the more effort will be required to stop it once it's started, or to start it in the first place. It will feel harder to turn and the bow will plunge more in waves if you load the ends too much. If you can fit your ballast within the cockpit area - fwd of footrest and behind the seat (in day hatch if appropriate) your boat will retain a more lively feel, if it has to go in the tanks, wedge it as close to the bulkheads as possible and try and prevent it sliding.
> When fully loading my boat for an expedition trim is a bit suck it and see! If you are ballasting your boat you might want to think about weight moments! The longitudinal CG is probably around the seat area, so assume it's the middle of the seat. Now measure how far the ballast is going to be from the centre of the seat both forwards and aft. When you multiply the weight of ballast forward by the distance from the seat the answer should be the same as when you multiply the aft ballast weight by it's distance from the seat. So if the forward ballast is twice as far away, it only needs to be half the weight to keep the boat in the same trim it would have been with just you in it! I am assuming the designer got this trim right in the first place :)

JIM

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Mike Marshall
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Quest stability.

Post by Mike Marshall » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:21 pm

Pelagic,
Anything in my Sirius HF is below the waterline, when I am paddling it.
It is almost as low as my old Anas Acuta was. Thats why I am going to the Quest!!!

Nice ballast dissertation Jim!
But I didnt think the Quest was THAT big!!!! Dont use the pig iron!!!lol

My main paddling buddy has a Quest and uses ballast /loading (cheap water carriers for drinking, only a few quid each approx 5litres each but flexible and easily emptied/filled) when running "day trips". Sits well with it and rolls no problem. Tight against the bulkheads inside the watertight compartments.

Mike

ps.. dont answer the threads when youve been to the pub ;-)

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:19 pm

ps.. dont answer the threads when youve been to the pub ;-)
"Liquor dont half talk loud when it gets loose from the jug"

Totally agree Mike, I think Jim has perfectly summed up the ballast issue, I myself will only consider movable ballast in the form of easily distributed cylindrycal tubes of a handy size for placing against bulheads, of course the higher the specific gravity the better, perfect "trim adjusters", as each weighs exactly a pound, even the maths is easy!

Thanks Jim.

Enjoy the Quest Mike.

Phil

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Post by CaileanMac » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:33 am

To pick up on MarkR info point he made earlier in this thread, P+H are now making a LV version of the Quest - has anyone seen or paddled one? There's nothing on P+H's website about them.

Jim - very 'technie' & informative post about ballast and a cracking paddler friendly summary :-) Ballast is great aid to making a boat's size become manageable but it does beg the question - is it the wrong size in the first place?

I recognised that many people want the space for their expedition provisions but consider the balance of days on the water you spend either day tripping vs on expedition (be realistic with yourself!). Then consider the energy and time expended sorting ballast before getting on the water and the excess energy expended in manourvoruing a sea kayak with ballast. Add this energy and time up over a paddling season........quite a few mars bars and lot of extra huffing and puffing.

However all that said 'each to their own ways' but it something for people to consider especially if they are buying a sea kayak, in my humble opinion.

CaileanMac

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Post by RichardCree » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:53 am

I agree get the right boat, one that fits, then learn how to paddle it, the boat is not tippy it's you thats unbalanced.

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Post by Jim » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:15 am

CaileanMac wrote:I recognised that many people want the space for their expedition provisions but consider the balance of days on the water you spend either day tripping vs on expedition (be realistic with yourself!).
I suspect I am virtually unique in the fact that my sea kayak lives with my dad and I only ever use it on long expeditions, so it is the right boat for me!

If I had a boat closer to home, particularly something small and nippy like an Anas Acuta or Nordkapp LV I might do more day tripping?

JIM

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Tippy Quest

Post by capsized8 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:21 am

RichardCree wrote: the boat is not tippy it's you thats unbalanced.
Andrea, I would take great exeption to being called unbalanced by Dr Cree, at your next consultation he nodoubt will subscribe ballast for your unbalance of Prozack in easily accesible containers - you might still wobble but at least you will be smiling.
peace and good padlin.

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Post by RichardCree » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:33 am

Now Pete, you know thats not what i meant.

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Tippy Quest

Post by capsized8 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:40 am

RichardCree wrote:Now Pete, you know thats not what I meant.
Quit wriggling - you normally have a good boatside manner for your consultations. I'm sure you will not be struck off for this little slip in patient confidentiallity.
peace and good padlin.

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Post by andreadawn » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:08 am

RichardCree wrote: the boat is not tippy it's you thats unbalanced.
I didn’t say the Quest was tippy. I said it felt a bit tippy when unladen, i.e. my perception of it in comparison to when laden, and compared to my other boat.

Not sure I understand the ’unbalanced’ comment. Presumably it’s not meant literally.
RichardCree wrote: get the right boat, one that fits, then learn how to paddle it,
andreadawn wrote: I'm certain the cockpit size is right for me. I'm 5'11" tall. I do not roll around inside it but actually feel quite snug whilst still being able to stretch my legs if I want. It actually feels a very small boat compared to the K1.
andreadawn wrote:Incidentally, on the weight front, P & H give the optimal load for the Quest as 70 - 126 kg. With my usual day kit, my boat is usually carrying about 85 kg.
Indeed, the boat does fit. Learning to paddle it is what I’m doing at the moment. Surely, making modifications is part of that process rather than accepting the boat exactly as it came.
CaileanMac wrote:I recognised that many people want the space for their expedition provisions but consider the balance of days on the water you spend either day tripping vs on expedition (be realistic with yourself!).
andreadawn wrote:When I bought it I was looking for an expedition boat. Having paddled a heavily laden one for a day I decided it was the boat for me. I particularly liked the spacious cockpit giving me plenty of "wiggle" room. And the fact that it would carry loads of stuff below deck.
Anything of more than one day duration is an expedition to me. Even with kit for one overnight only, my boat is nearer the upper end of P & H’s optimum weight.
Douglas Wilcox wrote:My friend Mike who has had two Quests , with each type of sea,t has removed his plastic seat and is fitting a lower foam seat. I think it's a great shame that the Quest's stability has been spoiled by this improvement.
As I said, I don’t appear to be the only one.

Thanks to all who gave constructive responses to my original query.

Andrea.

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:03 pm

I didn’t say the Quest was tippy. I said it felt a bit tippy when unladen, I.e. my perception of it in comparison to when laden, and compared to my other boat.
Hi Andrea,
quite right, I have been aurguing that my old Nordcapp HM wasnt a tippy boat for years! however if the truth be told (and keep it quiet) it was. As a camera platform it made a very good bear trap!
However there is a school of thought that I tend to agree with that a certain amount of tippiness is a desirable feature, particularly when it comes to the handling caracteristics in rougher water, especially in beam seas. As an indicator of how my perceptions have changed over the years, I used to dutifully load water / sand etc against the bulkheads to play in races to "improve the handling". Now I am more likely to thank my lucky stars that I am not in a loaded boat in some situations. How was this radical shift achieved?

Learning to paddle it is what I’m doing at the moment. Surely, making modifications is part of that process rather than accepting the boat exactly as it came.
Just like that. Lowering the seat will give you a good basis to work from, you may find that later on you will want to add layers of foam to raise your seat again slightly to enjoy a more responsive feel, its just a question of what feels "right" and comfortable for you, there are no hard and fast answers here, its an ongoing process.
During the summer I took my son and some friends to Skomer, I was taking a photo as we entered little sound, and the next thing I knew, I was underwater! I had to put the camera in my teeth and roll up and I wish I had had the prescence of mind to take a photo of my sons face as it was a picture! My excuse that I was trying to capture an underwater puffin was met with guffaws of laughter and disbelief. Luckily non of my usual "mates" were there, otherwise I would still be trying to live it down,and as everyone else on the trip was from New York I think my secret is safe.
The real point of the story is that my process is still ongoing, of course this was a Jubilee, a boat considered by many, me included, to be more stable than the HM, so we have to put this one down to pilot error, again!
unless........................now, where did I leave that hacksaw?
Thanks to all who gave constructive responses to my original query.
Deep apologies, I probably wasnt one of those................

Phil

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Post by Geoff Seddon » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:40 pm

First rule of forums. Never post after the pub. Thanks Phil.

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Post by CaileanMac » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:50 pm

Andrea,

My last post was not particularly directed towards you as you have made a decision about Quest based on the style of paddling you do more often than not (expeditioning) but merely to draw to the attention of the silent majority of readers to consider the need for ballast in the first place.

As for lower your seat - just the job for lessening the 'tippy' feeling.

CaileanMac

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