Bl**dy Rolling

Inland paddling
MaverickvRS
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by MaverickvRS » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Back to the drawing board, and concentrate more on the technique!! The unfamiliar boat may also have had an impact - a big creeker isn't my normal barge!

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:47 pm
Leaning back to finish a roll is not cheating, it is a valid kind of roll which is reliable.
Remaining in the lay back position once you have rolled leaves you vulnerable to falling straight back in so best to learn to roll leaning back and then sit up immediately.
In time you will find you start sitting up before you get right up and use a forward sweep whilst sitting up - at this point you will have changed your roll to a combat roll which is even more useful on white water because you come up ready for a forward stroke and not needing half a second to sit up and get the blade forwards, but that doesn't mean a basic screw roll is wrong, just that you also need to remember to condition yourself to sit up ASAP to get the next paddle stroke on balance and not get in the habit of stopping to take a breather whilst lying back.
Fairly sure I sat up quickly afterwards :) Will see about ending on a forward forward sweep. I was very surprised by doing the extra support stroke, never done that before! Next session is going to have to see if I can get the blade to stay on the surface for more than 45 degrees of the sweep.
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Jim
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Jim » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:38 am

That just means you are getting a feel for it and starting to do stuff instinctively - that's good!

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:11 pm

100% success rate. No dodgy rolls. Nicked OH 30 degree paddle and it seemed to make a difference despite being cranked. Might be the bigger blade/longer shaft. Seem to be taking a long time to set up and get going but not running out of air! Really should get some video to see what it looks like.
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coldwind
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by coldwind » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 am

Pool sessions are great for rolling but I struggled transfering those skills to real life sea and surf kayaking. I cracked it by spending a day at a local lake armed with a foam paddle float, and a full divers face mask. Some instructors hate paddle floats but it allowed me to perfect my timing without worrying about wet exits as a c to c roll is easy with a float. A few hours with a break builds up muscle memory and eventually it all clicks in. I wear contact lenses so now roll with my eyes closed relying on feel and timing.

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:02 pm

coldwind wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 am
Pool sessions are great for rolling but I struggled transfering those skills to real life sea and surf kayaking. I cracked it by spending a day at a local lake armed with a foam paddle float, and a full divers face mask. Some instructors hate paddle floats but it allowed me to perfect my timing without worrying about wet exits as a c to c roll is easy with a float. A few hours with a break builds up muscle memory and eventually it all clicks in. I wear contact lenses so now roll with my eyes closed relying on feel and timing.
Next bit :) that one is almost entirely head game and I've done it once already, for real, including upside down decent of drop. Just couldn't make it work again. Tried the paddle float in moving water the worst bit was getting the boat to capsize suddenly when I want to stay upright until forced over! Don't suffer from ice cream head much but might struggle with not seeing the paddle without the float. Just need to find time and a nice feature and someone willing to keep an eye out for me.
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:14 pm

DaveBland wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:48 am
It's true of most sports, but with ww paddling in particular... it's about 70% head games and the rest is a mix of fitness, strength and physical aptitude.

You can work on all the technique and physical suff in the World, but if your head ain't there, you are onto closer before you start.
Which explains why on a good day, when I lose the fear I paddle a lot better. Tried applying this in a small way with the bl***dy rolling issue. Only in the pool but when i start reverting to i can't do this, take a breather and change the attitude to try again probably something different. So even though the onside isn't amazing I can still use it as a fallback to the almost non-existant offside roll (can set up but can't sweep the paddle out yet) to try falling over unexpectedly. Still not looking forward to trying it in the real world but just going to have to take it very slowly.
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Greenlandpaddler
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Greenlandpaddler » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:38 am

I teach Greenland Style Rolling in Dorset - PM me if you want to try something different. Regards Mike

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Thu May 03, 2018 10:09 pm

Actually had more success with cold water and practice than warm water and practice. Mostly because I took the playboat to a pool session and it still upsets my roll. There's the part of me that is being stubborn and the other part says don't bother it is not worth the risk. At least I know it won't affect rolling the burn :)
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat May 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Rolled some more. Ripper and burn again on the river. Should have tried the veloc too. Now for the playboat....
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MaverickvRS
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by MaverickvRS » Wed May 16, 2018 9:59 am

I got a new buoyancy aid recently and that makes rolling interesting - it's a 70N which may not sound a huge increase, however getting to a completely inverted start position is a challenge on flat water.

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sat May 19, 2018 12:13 am

Tonight's challenge, roll as many different boats as possible! Result 6 boats - burn, 2 fun, diesel, g force, allstar and mamba.
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun May 27, 2018 7:14 pm

So out on the river today, mixed results, first moving water roll in about 3 years, practice only and thats the second moving water roll ever so 100% increase :) rolled the playboat on a river which is a first. Far too much dodgy rolling, swimming and head lifting. Impressively I can lift my head while gripping the end of the B/A shoulder strap in my mouth (that roll didn't work)! Back to my trusty sherpa as much as get on with it very well a fancy, carbon foam core race paddle is a serious case of credit card kayaking with a bonus of WHY?

Getting a lot more willing to go into something I'm not totally confident I can cope with.

Biggest problem, I hate being upside down and out of control. So I pull the deck after a failed roll or unexpected capsize. I might manage a couple of seconds on a good day. Today qualified as my only unexpected capsize was actually followed by a 3 second hesitation before bailing. Apparently I was out of the wave that I capsized on but it didn't feel that way at all, still bubbly and throwing the boat around.

I can do the failed roll and rescue in the pool but not the unexpected capsize.

Other positives, well I went back into the wave for another try after surviving the first go. Didn't give up just didn't get that far. Found that I'm better off overdressed so there's little chance of getting cold and if possible overheating encourages rolling. I seem to be booked in to try learning to backdeck roll next month...

So need some way to get used to failed rolls on the river, unexpected capsizes in the pool and at some point real falling over on a river.

Must add more foam under the seat of the molan or just give in and buy a happy seat.
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:39 pm

For me I did well, unexpected capsized was followed by 3 seconds of tapping and a swim. No time for a second go.

Even the burn needs extra foam. How easy is it to move a sweet cheeks between boats?
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 am

3 months later and I tap more but still panic. The playboat is going as it hates me and I hate it! Roll is still sketchy, poorly done and unreliable and I now have a great carping technique :) got to look at the small improvements as before I wouldn't take a breath until I was solidly upright or holding onto something so in theory I could now take a second go (another of those things I have only managed once ever) or at least hold on a bit longer if only it wasn't firmly linked in my mind to panicking :(

So the attempt to get familiar with being underwater has mostly consisted of making myself more familiar with panic and now occasional disorientation underwater. No idea what went wrong or how to do it correctly but turning the boat over although an obvious and unavoidable first step seems to be wrong as it certainly hasn't improved anything.
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Ed_P
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Ed_P » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm

My technique is terrible so far and this doesn't fill me with much confidence! Hope it all goes well for you

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:26 am

Ed_P wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm
My technique is terrible so far and this doesn't fill me with much confidence! Hope it all goes well for you
the good news is I'm on the really exteme end of being useless at this so there's almost no way you'll take longer or have a worse time :)
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Kirsten
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by Kirsten » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:57 pm

Still doing the head thing? Boats are living things and they know when you fear them, hate them or just love them. According your signature you hate rolling, quite understandable with your history, but this is not helping either, quite the opposite.

I had a long way until I got my roll and I still have only a right hand roll but I don't care. I'm happy with it, although it is plan at this winters pool session to get a off site roll sorted. Though I still having issues to relax on the river, but it is a head thing as it yours with the roll.

Some days / river trips I perform worse than others. Sadly I can't do much about it, but it is getting better. Only issue is when I with people I didn't paddled before or the river is in a state I never experienced before/I don't now the river at all, whereby the company became now the bigger factor. Although on my last paddle I was with a paddler I was knowing, I paddled with him before and it was a river I was knowing quite well and paddled in different states, from very low to it shouldn't be higher. But it was the first time that I paddled only with him and no one else on this river which as a few G3 to offer, all of them making me slightly nervous anyway when being out with a group. Interesting enough I didn't capsized in any of the difficulties, but quite early in a minor rapid (no idea what actually happened) and recovered with a roll. The roll was a Pawlata roll as I was so wobbly on the day, I didn't trusted my normal setup.
Then, half way down the river stretch I had to abandoned my boat and paddle after a mishap at the start of a boulder field. Result was not a swim as not enough water but crawling to the river bank. At this point I actually wanted to call it a day and wanted to walk to the car, watching my buddy from the bank to make sure he is ok. But my buddy offered me to paddle my boat down the rapid and I carry is playboat as it is lighter, the next rapid he would help me with the portage and the last rapid can be skipped as it is the get out anyway.
In the end I only carried the playboat along the rapid just after my mishap and paddled the other two rapids without difficulties, although being nervous at the top. I did it because in one of the rapids I had a capsize (my first one there) just the week before, at the bottom. Although it is quite narrow it is deep enough to roll, which I did successfully, so I knew even if I get in trouble, I can get myself out again. Should I have capsized at the last rapid (have done it before), the car and dry clothes would be only a few meters away.

That's kind of normal for my White Water kayaking, I'm utterly self-conscious if it comes that I need others to get me out of a situation I brought myself in or is even the chance that I can get in trouble (and on a river there is always a chance for a capsize). I know everyone can capsize, sometimes in hilarious situations, there is nothing like a bomb proof roll, everyone is having a swim from time to time. Just relax, enjoy and have a laugh ... which is easier said than done and for me really hard to achieve.

Get this roll out of your head for now, don't care about it. Go with buddies who are fine with swimmers. If you can relax, than you will not end up in a need of a roll anyway ;) I know paddlers who can smile all the time and enjoy themselves and even as beginners they ended up barely swimming although with the mistakes they did everyone else would have been upside down.

Oh, even a dodgy roll is a roll, as long it brings your up, it's fine ;)

For unexpected capsizing in the pool: ball chasing games (wear a helmet!) are good for capsizes or some naughty buddies.

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StillNewish
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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by StillNewish » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:22 pm

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it already, but, if you can, I'd seriously consider some professional coaching, to focus on just rolling.

Don't do it with your club, or your mates, or a random person who offers, but try to find a coach who you can build a good rapport with beforehand, and who understands the head-games that are going on.

I'm not sure who to recommend, so will have to leave that up to you, but, from what you've written I think it would be time well spent. maybe booking two sessions a few weeks apart to gradually build up the confidence levels.

Maybe something like this;

https://www.pyb.co.uk/course/rolling-clinic/

No connection etc.

Good luck with it, let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Colin

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Re: Bl**dy Rolling

Post by gp.girl » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:33 am

Well I finally managed the right combination of paddle buddy (Rob), boat (I love my burn) conditions (warmish) venue (bottom wave at LV) and me (happy, relaxed, confident) and just ended up rolling a lot. You should have seen Rob's face the first time! Only 2 swims after rolling up still in the hole and not going for a second try. Last surf was ridiculously easy for someone who's avoided waves and holes for years!
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