Paddling in wind with a Greenland paddle

[leighv]

I've been paddling with Greenland paddles for almost a year now, and I love them. I currently own three - a 220cm Kalleq, a 220cm Eastpole Nanook, and a 225cm Seglagear Ikigai. The Ikigai is definitely my favourite; I feel the extra length gives it significantly more power for very little additional effort, and so it's become my favourite paddle for long days on the water.

The only issue arises when the wind picks up. By which I mean when it starts getting properly gusty, F5-6 and up. For some reason, at this point I start struggling and tend to switch to my Werner Cyprus.

I can't figure out whether this is a psychological thing or a technique thing. Perhaps both?

I do find when the wind is on my beam, and it's creating steepish troughs in the water, that the GLP makes me feel slightly unstable because I'm finding that I am leaning slightly to fully bury the blade in the water. This doesn't happen with a Euro paddle, as it's easier to ensure the full blade gets purchase in these conditions. I also feel somewhat more confident with my Werner when the conditions pick up, although I can't really explain why.

I also find that when things start getting rougher, that I instinctively start paddling at a higher angle. But this doesn't really feel right with the Greenland paddle, especially the fairly long one that I am generally paddling with.

When we were paddling around Arran recently, as we crossed Machrie Bay we were hit with significant wind that hadn't been forecast. I was happily pootling along with my Ikigai and when we got hit by the wind, a solid F5+ on our beam, I really struggled to stay on course and actually got significantly separated from the others. Once my friend had rafted up with me and I had switched to my Werner, I was totally fine and able to control my kayak easily again.

Does anyone have any insight into this? I'm aware of a sliding technique but haven't learned it. Would this help?

[PlymouthDamo]

The sliding stroke thing is for storm paddles, which are around a foot shorter than your main as they don't have a loom. The technique is that you do each stroke with the top hand holding onto the very end of the paddle before sliding/shuffling it through your hands so you can do the same at the other end. Sounds complicated, but it's a simple knack that you can pick up fairly easily with practice. Paddling like this means there's no excess paddle sticking up in the air to get caught by strong winds. However, there are two other advantages to storm paddles which are more important to me: they're much stronger, and they're short enough to stow out of the way on your back deck and, unlike a 2-piece, are ready to deploy instantly if you lose your main.

As far as stability in swell is concerned, I'm much more confident with a stick. But this is down to the technique you're using and whether you've been doing it long enough to be fully burned into muscle memory. Discussing paddling technique on here is a fool's errand which often ends up in a handbag battle. Your best bet is to try and find someone nearby who's able to coach you, or go down a rabbit hole on YouTube. But be aware that there is no single correct technique for using sticks - you can go high or low cadence, high or low angle and they can generate thrust by either displacing the water front to back or 'winging' out to the sides.

Two general rules of thumb which apply to any paddle:
1. Keeping it in the water with pressure on it provides you with a point of stability
2. In swell, look ahead and aim to be planting your paddle in the peak of the waves. (Once you get your timing right, this is faster and avoids the situation you're experiencing whereby you're having to lean over to get your stick planted deep enough.)

[Mark Graham]

If you haven't already have a search for dancing with the sea and/ or Paulo Oulllet (think I've spelled his surname correctly). He's a very big exponent of GPs and runs courses plus a series of videos - some free.
A recurring theme of his is the enhanced stability available from a GP in rough water - well worth having a look.

[Stormroll]

The sliding stroke thing is for storm paddles, which are around a foot shorter than your main as they don't have a loom. The technique is that you do each stroke with the top hand holding onto the very end of the paddle before sliding/shuffling it through your hands so you can do the same at the other end. Sounds complicated, but it's a simple knack that you can pick up fairly easily with practice. Paddling like this means there's no excess paddle sticking up in the air to get caught by strong winds. However, there are two other advantages to storm paddles which are more important to me: they're much stronger, and they're short enough to stow out of the way on your back deck and, unlike a 2-piece, are ready to deploy instantly if you lose your main.

As far as stability in swell is concerned, I'm much more confident with a stick. But this is down to the technique you're using and whether you've been doing it long enough to be fully burned into muscle memory. Discussing paddling technique on here is a fool's errand which often ends up in a handbag battle. Your best bet is to try and find someone nearby who's able to coach you, or go down a rabbit hole on YouTube. But be aware that there is no single correct technique for using sticks - you can go high or low cadence, high or low angle and they can generate thrust by either displacing the water front to back or 'winging' out to the sides.

Two general rules of thumb which apply to any paddle:
1. Keeping it in the water with pressure on it provides you with a point of stability
2. In swell, look ahead and aim to be planting your paddle in the peak of the waves. (Once you get your timing right, this is faster and avoids the situation you're experiencing whereby you're having to lean over to get your stick planted deep enough.)

All of the above is excellent advice.

In big conditions, a GP blade kept in the water (fully submerged) as much as possible is the best friend you can have. The added stability is just incredible compared to a euro paddle.

[leighv]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions! I suspect this may be due to the fact that I’m still relatively new to the paddle and simply haven’t spent enough time in conditions with it. Habitually switching to a Euro paddle in conditions has clearly deprived me of the opportunity to develop my Greenland technique in them.

I actually know the Dancing with the Sea channel very well, as it’s one of the reasons I first tried a Greenland paddle. I’ll keep persevering with it and see where I get :)

[ChrisJK]

Interesting thread.
You’re all beyond my ability so useful advice.
From my perspective I only carry two paddles at sea Greenland paddles generally homemade which seem to have slightly wider blades than commercial ones but I’ve got largish hands the shorter storm paddle bought for a tenner which I have used a few times including crossing to holy island on Arran when it was fairly windy the sliding stroke was workable.
I find changes in angle of Kant on the blade affects power generated.
One advantage of Greenland paddles is as one piece they can be swapped relatively quickly
It may be disconcerting Leigh but maybe leave the euro at home.
Hopefully this doesn’t turn into a handbag thread
It’s of no benefit as plymo says.

[Chris Bolton]

changes in angle of Kant

The philosophical aspect of Greenland paddling?

[ChrisJK]

I see what you did there Chris.
Also.
I’m half Dutch so kant means side or edge and according to AI overview there was a Eurovision song called Kant which I suppose is linguistically/phonetically linked to cant (sing) as in canticle.
Sorry we digress.

[AllanH]

there was a Eurovision song called Kant which I suppose is linguistically/phonetically/logically linked to 'can't sing' (FIFY ;-))

Further digression...I'll get my coat.

[leighv]

So I’ve been in Pembrokeshire the last few days and it’s been pretty breezy. I’ve been using my Greenlands and working on timing my strokes a bit more and so far things are working well 🙂

[ChrisJK]

It’s satisfy and stabilising to dig in to the side of a wave with what is a centuries old design.
A Roman equivalent might be seeing those bifold doors in Herculaneum
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[floaty-mcfloatface]

Well, for what it's worth, I tend to switch back to my classic euro-style blades (Select X.Trek) whenever things get a bit spicy, or when I need that insta-power (eg bouncy rock- and gap-hopping) that I can't get from the GL blades (I'm also a Nanook - Bone Edge + BlackBone. Absolutely love 'em).

This may also be from habit as I'm a former WW/freestyle paddler, so when things get frothy, I feel happier with that insta-power. I'm wondering how much to try to train myself out of this habit... alternatively just say s*d it; if I'm enjoying myself and I feel safe, who cares :-)

[ChrisJK]

I quite understand that especially the sprint power of euro blades. I have used a short gp on the weir at Chester in a WW boat and I didn’t come to grief. I’m generally a sub F4 paddler and not one that relishes gnarly water. North Arran we encountered some fair head down type conditions and I was fine. I’ve used a shorter gp in tighter spaces but using a wood kayak I’m a tad careful around rocks!
My paddles are home made so I just sand them up from time to time.

[Mac50L]

I currently own three - a 220cm Kalleq, a 220cm Eastpole Nanook, and a 225cm Seglagear Ikigai.
I also find that when things start getting rougher, that I instinctively start paddling at a higher angle. But this doesn't really feel right with the Greenland paddle, especially the fairly long one that I am generally paddling with.

WHAT !!!! only 3. It is obvious you don't make your own as a dozen would be about the minimum. They breed like rabbits.

High angle? Yes with the blade into the water beside the hull and moving out as your body rotates.

Kant - I can't see that used anywhere. Cant is the term. Basically the blade is vertical as you rotate to the next stroke. As the blade heads to the water the, what was the upper edge (outer edge when in the water) is rotated forward a little, canted forward.

The blade goes into the water and as you rotate your body, arms near straight, the blade moves out away from the hull. That cant angle is like an aircraft wing with lift and the same as a Wing paddle giving "lift" in the direction you are moving.

If you decide to make any GPs, don't waste wood and money and buy a 4x2 length of timber. Timber about 20mm thick and the width of the required blade. The extra thickness is made up from the bits that get cut off each side of the loom.
https://sealandairblog.wordpress.com/gr ... -your-own/