Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

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banzer
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Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by banzer » Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 am

Regular readers of this forum will know (and not care) about my apathy towards new boat styles. I'm not especially aiming at Pyranha but they seem a good one to start with.

What's so much better about 'version 2' of the 9R over 'version 1'. I didn't particularly notice Bren et al paddling rubbish in the first version.

With that in mind, what features of 'version 2' are still not quite right yet and they are looking to improve on in 'version 3' in no doubt three or four years time. Why don't they just do that now with 'version '2 and save the bother. What massive difference in boating style and demands is there likely to be in the next three years to warrant these changes. I'm quite sure Aniol would have worked out a Cobra Flip in an original Nomad if that's all he had to paddle.

What I'm trying to say is, surely 'creek boats' as we know them have reached the zenith of design, and until someone makes a radical change (eg twin hull or something), any tweaks are pretty immaterial and designed purely to shift new boats (not that I blame them btw, they're a business after all). Sponsored paddlers are bound to say the new one is so much better because they're paid to do so.

Blah blah, etc etc. Where's the rain?!
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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by Mark Mulrain » Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 am

I think most changes are down to the way the original 9R was used. Pyranha did not expect people to take a boat that was primarily designed to go as fast in a straight line (as fast a sub 9 foot river design can go anyway) and push their limits with hard whitewater.
With harder and harder race courses being run, paddlers are demanding boats that are both fast and controlled. The 9R was not as easy to control as some of the other designs but this is why so many people fell for it.
The challenge was to keep this magic that made the 9R special. From all the inital reports coming in for devoted 9R paddlers, it sounds like the 9R II has managed it.

Paddling styles will continue to change; kayak designs probably will change to flatter these new styles. If a boat company did not try to innovate then it would be a bit of a dull marketplace and we would probably all still be in Nomads/Jefes and doing backwards sweep strokes.

At the end of the day every design is a compromise and there are people that will prefer the original 9R over the 9R II. I know that Pyranha will be keeping both designs going.

Everyone's a winner surely? Bring on the dam releases, I want to try my 9R II (and 12R) out!

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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by Dave Manby » Sun May 05, 2019 12:43 pm

I don't know about the 9R:2 but years ago I paddled the Burn mk1 own the Yusufei gorge section of the Coruh and then took the Burn mk2 down the same section. It was almost enough of a different boat to maybe warrant a different name except it looked so similar. The main improvement in the mk2 was that the stern didn't suck down like the mk1 did. This was the first time I really noticed a difference in a similar boat if you see what I mean. Now obviously everyone is going to notice different changes because everyone has different paddling styles/weights/stroke rate/arm length. (I never upgraded to the mk3 burn and have never paddled it.)

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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by Strad » Tue May 07, 2019 8:57 am

banzer wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 am
What I'm trying to say is, surely 'creek boats' as we know them have reached the zenith of design, and until someone makes a radical change (eg twin hull or something), any tweaks are pretty immaterial and designed purely to shift new boats

Think I've been hearing the 'pinnacle of design' line for more years than I care to remember, yet things have continued to evolve and the way we paddle has continued to evolve too. Long may that continue..
Old School?? I miss my AQII..
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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by Jim » Tue May 07, 2019 12:45 pm

banzer wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 am

With that in mind, what features of 'version 2' are still not quite right yet and they are looking to improve on in 'version 3' in no doubt three or four years time. Why don't they just do that now with 'version '2 and save the bother. What massive difference in boating style and demands is there likely to be in the next three years to warrant these changes. I'm quite sure Aniol would have worked out a Cobra Flip in an original Nomad if that's all he had to paddle.
It is pretty rare to know what the improvements for a new version will be just as the current version is released, otherwise as you say, those features would have been included, except if they had been discovered soon after the process of making the production moulds started. It is one thing to have top end paddlers doing R&D testing of prototypes to suit them, and completely another thing to come up with a design that really suits the masses that probably don't have the same paddling style or requirements of the top paddlers, only the R&D test data is available when the production moulds are built, it is only after production boats get out into circulation and 'real' paddlers start to put the hours in and give their own feedback that a design can be really tweaked, but even then there will be some differing views and ideas coming back.
The trick is to get something generally good for most people the first time round, if you don't get that right it will cost to update the design too soon!

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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by Franky » Tue May 07, 2019 6:00 pm

People will always buy new stuff if it's marketed appropriately. It doesn't have to be "right", it just has to be different. Consider the 9R and Machno, both radical new designs that found their market in people looking for a change.

I'm of a "when I find something I like, I stick with it" cast of mind, and haven't been convinced that all new boat designs are improvements. I bought a Mamba 4 and a half years ago and have paddled half a dozen other boats since, sometimes as demos with a purchase in mind, but I've always been disappointed that nothing screamed at me to part with my cash. If I had to replace my boat now, I'd buy another Mamba.

My paddling has a lot of room for improvement and that's what keeps me motivated. If I felt totally happy with my paddling, I'd probably be looking for a "lateral" move to a different boat style.

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Re: Pyranha 9R '2' - what's the difference?

Post by SimonMW » Thu May 09, 2019 1:50 pm

For one thing the 9R2 is a slightly different type of boat to the first 9R, which is why they are keeping the original 9R on the market alongside the Mk2.

As any boat designer will tell you, small changes can make big differences to the way a boat behaves. When the Dagger Nomad was originally released, that was the pinnacle of creek boat design at the time it came out. But I doubt you'd find many people now preferring it over, say, a Machno, or an Gangsta etc. It isn't really a matter of what you can do in the boats that is different, but in the feel on the water in how they do it.

Are you suggesting boat designers just give up and vow never to design a new boat ever again? It's not as if the 9R2 has been released quickly. The 9R has been around for a few years now! 2014 if memory serves.

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