My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Marathon, Freestyle, Polo, Slalom, Sprint, WWR, etc.
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Conor Buckboy
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My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Post by Conor Buckboy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:48 pm

I'm afraid this topic is rather a dull one, but I have been forced to resort to is. One of my friends simply won't accept the truth, and so I ask your honest opinion. Give whatever opinion you wish just that it is genuine to your heart, even if you don't know much about each boat I would like to hear your thoughts upon the matter.
The question, and I know it's a broad one but here it is,

Which is the faster boat?
A 17ft long fibreglass Kirton Espada original from the 1970s
Or, a 13ft long Kevlar hull fibreglass deck Baron Sabre WWR

The WWR is slightly lighter due to no metal fittings unlike the K1, however the K1 is much longer, both are around the same width as the espada is an older design.

Use common sense and any knowledge you have.
Thank you for your time.

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Re: My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Post by jamiemagee » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:56 pm

Generally longer boats are faster. The weight difference won't make a massive difference.

I'd say over a short distance/ winding course the wwr but that extra 4ft on the k1 should soon see it taking the lead otherwise.

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Chris Bolton
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Re: My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Post by Chris Bolton » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:10 pm

I would expect a K1 (even an Espada) to be faster than a WWR kayak, assuming they were being paddled in the speed range where wave drag matters and on relatively flat water (big waves might slow the Espada). The WWR design might be a little newer than the Espada but they are the same era - I think even a current design WWR would be slower. A 13ft WWR would be slower still, as they are usually 14ft 9in (4.5m). But it does, of course, depend on the paddler!

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Re: My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Post by Jim » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:58 pm

Now there is an interesting question, some of the sprinters were apparently put out when Fraser took some of the WWR paddlers along to a sprint event and they took some medals in their funny looking boats.....

Scientifically, the Espada makes a longer wave and will have lower wind resistance so if both boats were brand new, it should be faster, but it is 40+ years old and probably isn't very stiff any more so could lose a fair bit of energy to flex, but so will the WWR if it is similar vintage - kevlar does not add much stiffness. If you were comparing 40 year old fibreglass with freshy moulded carbon foam sandwich, there would be an enormous difference in stiffness in favour of the WWR.

Underwater they are probably pretty similar apart from the length.

Ultimately it comes down to the paddler, and the test conditions. Strong wind makes me wobble in my WWR and that ruins my technique for quite a few strokes, I would probably do more than wobble in a sprint K1

It is easy to find out, grab a GPS and paddle them both - just leave long enough to rest between runs.

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Re: My fellow racers, I call upon your opinion.

Post by PaulK1 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:29 pm

Assuming it's on flat water, the Espada really should be faster, it's longer, it probably has a better seat position (higher) so you'll be able to use more leg drive, weight makes barely any difference (unless you had an extremely heavy boat) so I wouldn't worry about that. If the Espada has gone really soft, it's old a fibre glass so it may have! then that'll slow it down. I've paddled WWR boats on the same time trail course as flat water racing boats and they were significantly slower. So, my money's on the Espada..

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