Equality in our sport

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Grumpy old man
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Equality in our sport

Post by Grumpy old man » Tue May 21, 2013 7:31 am

Please sign below to help equality in our sport. It could have a big impact on the future of canoeing and kayaking in the Olympics. Not just for Rio but beyond.

https://www.change.org/petitions/lift-t ... r-rio-2016
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Pat R » Tue May 21, 2013 10:00 am

Done. Every one of us should be signing this!

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Lancs_lad » Tue May 21, 2013 11:03 am

Signed.

However, am I right in believing if they introduce a new sport another has to give way?

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by GenericName » Tue May 21, 2013 11:13 am

Is it a new sport? I figure it's letting women compete in an existing one.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Strad » Tue May 21, 2013 12:04 pm

GenericName wrote:Is it a new sport? I figure it's letting women compete in an existing one.
that's the way I would look at it.

Open question, to which I don't know the answer but could take a guess, are there any sports which are mandated Women only, with no male equivalent in the Olympics?

EDIT: answered my own question - synchro swimming is a ladies only event, the question then becomes how many events are gender restricted?
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Wadhamite » Tue May 21, 2013 12:07 pm

Strad wrote:
GenericName wrote:Is it a new sport? I figure it's letting women compete in an existing one.
that's the way I would look at it.

Open question, to which I don't know the answer but could take a guess, are there any sports which are mandated Women only, with no male equivalent in the Olympics?
Synchronised swimming and loads of the gymnastics disciplines (there's no men's rhythmic gymnastics at all, and the men's event doesn't contain a floor [artistic-type] event).
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Strad » Tue May 21, 2013 12:11 pm

I'd already confirmed synchro swimming, hadn't thought about the gymnastic events - so it's quite a few events that have some form of gender restriction.
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by mharrall » Tue May 21, 2013 12:12 pm

Rhythmic gymnastics?

Inclusion of Olympic events is about balancing numbers of competitors. More events means more competitors and more cost, they've all got to be housed and transported around etc. London and Beijing both had about 11k competitors. If women's C1 was added, something somewhere would lose an equivalent number of athletes.
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Mike A » Tue May 21, 2013 12:20 pm

I presume it would be dealt with in the same way as cycling was recently.

A sport has a set number of slots, and it is up to hte governing bodies in discussion with the olympics how those slots are allocated.

eg slalom k1m k2m c1m k1w would equal 4 slots - 3 men, 1 womam

In an ideal world for equality, the sport would gain an extra 2 slots for womens competitions, however in actuality the sport would have to swap one of the mens slots over.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue May 21, 2013 3:48 pm

There are all sorts of factors affecting which sports are selected and I understand the total number of sports/disciplines is one of those factors. A sport needs to be practiced in a significant number of countries, hence football but no cricket or rugby.

They like sports to be definitely measurable; fastest, highest, longest and not subjective so it is difficult to understand how synchronised swimming got in. It would be an argument against freestyle kayak.

If a sport is not practiced by many of one gender, I suspect that gender would not be included since it would be difficult for a good number of countries to submit a team. I suspect this is why synchronised swimming is ladies only, as an example.

I don't know how many C1 ladies there are in the country or in the world; I've never seen one, although I have seen C1 whitewater racing ladies. That's not an olympic sport.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Wadhamite » Tue May 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:There are all sorts of factors affecting which sports are selected and I understand the total number of sports/disciplines is one of those factors. A sport needs to be practiced in a significant number of countries, hence football but no cricket or rugby.

They like sports to be definitely measurable; fastest, highest, longest and not subjective so it is difficult to understand how synchronised swimming got in. It would be an argument against freestyle kayak.

If a sport is not practiced by many of one gender, I suspect that gender would not be included since it would be difficult for a good number of countries to submit a team. I suspect this is why synchronised swimming is ladies only, as an example.

I don't know how many C1 ladies there are in the country or in the world; I've never seen one, although I have seen C1 whitewater racing ladies. That's not an olympic sport.
Wasn't there slalom C1 women's selection going on at HPP and LV a few weeks ago? Standard seemed comparable to the slalom K1 women?
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue May 21, 2013 5:28 pm

No idea. I'm not really that interested in competition per se.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by DaveBland » Tue May 21, 2013 5:32 pm

I don't think synchronised swimming is ladies only? I just think that you're average bloke isn't so keen on doing it.
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Grumpy old man » Tue May 21, 2013 10:46 pm

C1 women is growing in popularity and standard across the world. Jessica Fox is perhaps the most well known C1 woman in slalom (Australia) and the UK C1 women are pretty impressive too. So it's the principle of equality that they should be able to compete in the sport they do with men, alongside in the top event of the Olympics. I've watched the young C1 women train, and they work hard!

There is one male syncronised swimming team in GB - and they have also written to the IOC - maybe they are just further down the line. I'd like to watch them :)

Canoeing was surprised to find itself on the shortlist for being dropped for 2020 Olympics - some say lack of gender equality played a part in it being on that list (though there are other factors, and wrestling, which was ultimately voted out, hasn't got a good gender equality status either). Noone likes losing anything they have, so that argument is a sticking point, but it wouuld be a shame if it also potentially jeapordised the whole sport for 2024 - and competition or not, these kayakers and canoeists, male and female, are pretty damn good paddlers to watch



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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by edhunter » Tue May 21, 2013 11:10 pm

I saw somewhere that the gender restrictions on events has a lot to do with participation. If not many women or men participate in a single sport then it doesn't get included. I did see a C1 womens slalom event on TV (world champs I think) and they were making a case for it to be included in the Olympics. From what they were saying they were talking about "surely this standard is good enough" not sure if they were referring to actual criteria that the sport needs to be competed in to a high standard or just that surely this deserves to be in.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by SimonMW » Wed May 22, 2013 8:17 am

However, am I right in believing if they introduce a new sport another has to give way?
As far as I am aware womens C1 slalom will be in the next Olympics. However there was a question asked on the commentary at last years games as to where the places would come from. According to what they said when Sydney hosted the games they originally tried to wriggle out of having canoe slalom because they didn't want to have to build a WW course. They mentioned something about the number of athlete places being reduced as a result of this, but then the IOC forced them to have the slalom and to build the course, but for some reason the number of places weren't increased again. So there are less athlete places in the games overall as a result.

No idea how that works, just going on what was said during the commentary.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by SimonMW » Wed May 22, 2013 8:20 am

Canoeing was surprised to find itself on the shortlist for being dropped for 2020 Olympics - some say lack of gender equality played a part in it being on that list
That would be a shame, especially considering it makes some of the best television, and was one of the best attended events at the Olympics last year. Hopefully the popularity of the slalom last year will go some way to getting it off that list.

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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Sickboy » Wed May 22, 2013 9:06 am

edhunter wrote:I saw somewhere that the gender restrictions on events has a lot to do with participation. If not many women or men participate in a single sport then it doesn't get included. I did see a C1 womens slalom event on TV (world champs I think) and they were making a case for it to be included in the Olympics. From what they were saying they were talking about "surely this standard is good enough" not sure if they were referring to actual criteria that the sport needs to be competed in to a high standard or just that surely this deserves to be in.
I always thought that it was lack of participation rather than general bias by the IOC that stopped some events being open to both sexes. Obviously once an event is open to a particular sex more people will train for it, but even then, will there be enough to have a top level standard of competition? This is obviously a WORLD view, I'm sure WE have a very strong womens teams in all these events.
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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by Grumpy old man » Wed May 22, 2013 9:50 am

I understood that some progress is being made, but that they will be making the final decisions re Rio later this year (so more support like this will help). If it happens for 2016, it is currently more likely for women's C1 slalom than women's C1 sprint.



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Re: Equality in our sport

Post by morsey » Wed May 22, 2013 1:04 pm


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