What Kayak?

alanhid · Post by **alanhid** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:56 pm

Looking to buy a sea kayak over the coming winter months and im not quite sure what model to go for.
Im 6`2, 95kg. Im looking at plastic as opposed to composite (to keep the cost down)
Also looking for something that will hold enough kit for 2/3 day trips.

Im an experienced gd3/4 river paddler whos getting a bit fed up with the lack of water during the summer months so Im looking to further my horizons!

Richard Uren · Post by **Richard Uren** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:15 pm

Valley Aquanaut RM, Well worth a look. www.valleyseakayaks.co.uk

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:18 pm

Welcome Alan - this will be one of those "how long is a piece of string" threads!! ;-)

Have you found the Sea Site? Take a look at the Almanac/Equipment & Sea Kayaks page where there are many links to previous discussions and a few reviews.

Most of the modern plastic boats are good - well, the ones originating from UK manufacturers. Thats not to say that US / Continental designs aren't good, but certainly US boats generally have a different design philosophy.

Generally the likes of P&H Capellas or Valley Skerrys will have enough space for your kit needs. I'd doubt whether a P&H Easky would though.

As with all things, "try before you buy" - if you can.

Enjoy - Mike.

Douglas Wilcox · Post by **Douglas Wilcox** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:15 pm

Hello Alan, I have just done a review of Valley Avocet, Aquanaut, P&H Capella 166 and Point65 Crunch for Paddles current issue. Might be worth reading before you go for a test paddle. If you cant find Paddles PM me and I will email text.
Douglas

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:24 pm

It seems that Valley are also about to launch a plastic version of the Nordkapp which would be worth trying.

SeaSpirit · Post by **SeaSpirit** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:27 pm

Hi, I'm a complete newcomer to sea kayaking and off on Saturday to do an introductory sea kayak course at Woodmill (Southampton) on Saturday. I'm contemplating buying a plastic boat and both the Argonaut and Avocet have been recommended to me as a good first-choice quality plastic boats. I've just seen the excellent review in the current Paddles edition and it has helped to clarify the different characteristics of them. I will certainly be trying out both and others before making a decision. The intended usage would be mostly day/weekend trips. I am 5'9" and 73kg - my 'dry' research to date suggests that the Avocet may be more suited, however, I would welcome any advice/guidance from the more experienced paddlers out there. Thanks.

Mark R · Post by **Mark R** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:33 pm

Just homing on on Luke's post above. Has anyone looked at his blog site?

' http://www.paddlelog.com - A sea kayaking blog'

I just did - rather good, I like it. Keep the reports and photos coming!

Mark R · Post by **Mark R** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:34 pm

Douglas Wilcox wrote:If you cant find Paddles PM me and I will email text.

If you can't find it, better still - email parkinrichardAThotmail.com who will no doubt help you out...the editor.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:52 pm

guidebook wrote: ' http://www.paddlelog.com - A sea kayaking blog'

I just did - rather good, I like it. Keep the reports and photos coming!

Almanac'd. Nice blog. Any more decent blogs to add?

Mike.

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:50 am

Almanac'd. Nice blog. Any more decent blogs to add?

I'm blushing!

Unfortunately, the one time someone actually went and looked at my blog it was undergoing a makeover and the links section is currently down but I have been watching a few other paddling blogs.

alanhid · Post by **alanhid** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:35 am

Ok, saw the reviews in Paddles which was useful.
Any thoughts on Prijon Touryak and Kodiak?
Any thoughts on Rainbow kayaks Laser sea kayak.

ChrisS · Post by **ChrisS** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:37 pm

I paddled a Rainbow Laser for a week while on holiday in the Mediterranean and found it an excellent boat, very responsive to edging and not at all prone to weather-cocking. I tried several different plastic boats and the Laser was easily the best. The only thing I didn't like about it was the foam bulkheads. Very good value for the price which is around £650 I think.

Andy Waddington · Post by **Andy Waddington** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:51 pm

If you want the perfect boat, a cut above even the composite crowd, and yet keep costs down below plastic boat level, buy "The Strip Built Sea Kayak" by Nick Schade (through Amazon online, or Knoydart kayaking systems usually have a copy in stock in Keswick) and take advice on what boat to build from the sea kayak building BBS at http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Build ... .cgi/index

Your first boat will cost you a few hours, and it costs a few more answering questions from admirers, but paddling a boat you built yourself is a real blast and if you break it *you can fix it* because you built it. It will also be lighter than a pure fibreglass boat, and way lighter than a plastic tub, as well as faster and tailored exactly to fit you.

But be warned - building exquisite sea kayaks is addictive. Soon you'll want to try other designs, and other building methods - traditional skin-on-frame, stitch-and-glue, modern skin-on-frame folding boats for holidays by air and so on. Remember to leave time to paddle the boats !!

Andy

Erling · Post by **Erling** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:01 am

alanhid wrote:Im looking at plastic as opposed to composite (to keep the cost down)

A friend of mine was in exactly your situation a few weeks ago. She needed two kayaks, and the total price difference was quite substantial. However, we discovered that the local shop(/importer) sells the North Shore Calypsoes as semi-finished kits. Complete with paddles, covers and PFDs she saved close to 14,000 NOK (1,200 UKP) compared with off-the-shelf Calypsoes. Doing it this way she saved money even compared with plastic.

I did the work that remained, and it was quite straightforward. As no instructions were included, I took some pictures and put up a web site "just for the fun of it". The process described applies to any make of polyester/fibreglass kayak, of course.

http://home.no.net/ebrox/Calypso.htm

-Or you can take the scenic route:
http://home.no.net/ebrox
Scroll down the menu on the left.

Tim Pickering · Post by **Tim Pickering** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:26 am

I would like to add another one into the mix the Wilderness Systems Tempest. Very sea worthy, paddles well, great build quality. Only problem I have had with the three I own are leaking bulkheads which I intend to sikaflex up. You will be able to get the kit in no problem.

Mark R · Post by **Mark R** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:35 am

Tim Pickering wrote: sikaflex

?????

Erling · Post by **Erling** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:38 am

Tim Pickering · Post by **Tim Pickering** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:43 pm

There are various descriptions of the stuff but surfice to say it sticks pretty much anything to anything. Don't get it on your clothes it never comes out!!

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:42 pm

Sikaflex, marine grade goo'y stuff.

Just sealed in the rim of a new day hatch into my old boat with it; great stuff.

john campbell · Post by **john campbell** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:19 pm

Hi Alan
Definately have a try in a Prijon boat; sounds like a Seayak, Touryak or Kodiak would be the boy for the job depending on your size/weight. They have the best build quality and comfort of any plastic seakayak available - bar none - and at a price of circa £650 - £750 they are also the best value in the UK.

happy paddling
John

jayno55 · Post by **jayno55** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:32 am

The more I read about different sea kayaks, the more I like the look of the Point65n XP (aimed at medium to large size people, so you should be OK with it), which you can buy in composite form for not too much more than the price of plastic.

http://www.point65.com/

jayno

Tim Maud · Post by **Tim Maud** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:09 pm

Might I suggest the Dagger Exodus X.

Tim Maud

Product Designer

Palm Equipment International Limited
www.palmequipmenteurope.com
www.daggereurope.com

Organic Ginger · Post by **Organic Ginger** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:28 pm

Douglas Wilcox wrote:Hello Alan, I have just done a review of Valley Avocet, Aquanaut, P&H Capella 166 and Point65 Crunch for Paddles current issue. Might be worth reading before you go for a test paddle. If you cant find Paddles PM me and I will email text.
Douglas

Hi Douglas
So what did you think of the Avocet? Want something that will last a lifetime. Am a experienced paddler but new to sea kayaking.
Thanks

tarkus · Post by **tarkus** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:50 pm

If its cost you are concerned with try a kit. Its more time consuming but with in two weeks of tinkering in the evenings you can build a fantastic wooden boat (lighter then fibreglass stronger than carbon) and fast. I built my first about three years ago, and everyone that has ever paddled mine have bought and built there own. They cost around £560 will last at least 10 years and beach landing is not a concern. I got mine from fyne boat kits in cumbria they are the biggest kit maker in europe and really know there stuff!

Douglas Wilcox · Post by **Douglas Wilcox** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:24 pm

OG>

So what did you think of the Avocet? Want something that will last a lifetime. Am a experienced paddler but new to sea kayaking.

Hello OG, I must say I enjoyed paddling all 4 poly boats, much more than I thought I would. There were surpring differences in performance, ergonomics and finishing. Some of the standouts for me were the manouverability of the Avocet, The ease with which the Crunch could be driven at speed and the comfort of the Capella. The test was written for those entering paddlesport but I had the opportunity to test the boats in more challenging conditions of wind and waves. The Capella and the Aquanaught handled well when carrying my weight, 85kg, + 30 kg of load. Unladen in force 5 the aquanaut was affected by wind more than the unladen Capella. I really took to the Avocet in these conditions. Unlike the other 3 boats it is made of single layer polyethylene which is tougher than their triple layer skins. This and its manouverability makes it suitable for close quarter rockhopping. It would make an ideal long term partner to a future purchase of a composite expedition boat. The only limitation for me was the space for my thighs between the braces and the seat front.

Whatever you do test paddle before you buy!

Douglas :o)

Mark R · Post by **Mark R** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:34 pm

Douglas Wilcox wrote:Unlike the other 3 boats it is made of single layer polyethylene which is tougher than their triple layer skins. This and its manouverability makes it suitable for close quarter rockhopping.

Hmm...I think the type of plastic may well be a red herring, for two reasons.

Firstly, whilst the durability of the plastic is of interest if you are buying for a club/ centre fleet, I doubt a normal user is really going to subject a sea kayak at any point to anything remotely resembling what a WW boat goes through in just a normal weekend. Put another way, sea kayakers don't normally abuse their boats. Any sea paddler needing a tougher plastic to survive their trips would be a very unusual specimen.

Secondly, experience has suggested that in practice, modern boat plastics aren't wildly different...put crudely, an impact severe enough to split brand X will almost certainly also split brands Y and Z.

Douglas Wilcox · Post by **Douglas Wilcox** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:13 am

Mark>

Hmm...I think the type of plastic may well be a red herring, for two reasons.

Firstly, whilst the durability of the plastic is of interest if you are buying for a club/ centre fleet, I doubt a normal user is really going to subject a sea kayak at any point to anything remotely resembling what a WW boat goes through in just a normal weekend. Put another way, sea kayakers don't normally abuse their boats. Any sea paddler needing a tougher plastic to survive their trips would be a very unusual specimen.

I was not talking about impact resistance but abrasion resistance. The triple layer polyethylene consists of two thin layers sandwiching a foam inner layer. The outer layer is very thin the foam layer is soft. Despite me being very careful, my 2005 composite Quest with a keel strip altready has some deep gouges from rocky landings, slipways and barnacles. Combine a softer polyethylene skin with a V bottom and you have concentrated wear. I have observed 2 "normal" friends who own polyethylene sea kayaks dragging them up the beach. Their 2004 kayaks have already worn through to the core along the V.

Also, a boat like the Avocet is highly suitable for rockhopping. My 2 season rockhopper (which has a single layer construction like a river boat) has several deep gouges and abrasions on its edges from only a few glancing contacts with barnacle covered rocks (my elbow was worse). At least WW boats do not have to put up with barnacles in rivers.

OG asked for my opinion on a boat that would last a lifetime, you cannot fit a keelstrip to a poly boat.

Douglas

Mark R · Post by **Mark R** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:23 am

Douglas Wilcox wrote:I was not talking about impact resistance but abrasion resistance... ...I have observed 2 "normal" friends who own polyethylene sea kayaks dragging them up the beach.

This was the point I was trying to make about centre/ club boats...these will get abused and dragged all over the place, whereas individual owners look after their boats carefully.

Or...perhaps not, from your example! Any boat will deteriorate if you treat it badly, the material it's made of is immaterial.

UKRGB

The UK Rivers Guidebook

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