Surf Boats

Bhoyo · Post by **Bhoyo** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:55 pm

OK so I may live as far away from the sea as it gets (Other than Leicester I think!!) but I am addicted to surfing.

I have also changed my previous 'all round' boat and now got river runner and a playboat.

It was on taking the playboat surfing and seeing the improvement from the alrounder, I was wondering if a mega maverick or similar would be a good investment and if the do surf that much better?

Also if having three boats would be classed as starting my own club??

Thoughts????

Chris C · Post by **Chris C** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 am

Ah, I have been escaping lovely Worcester to come back to South Wales for a surf most weekends. Its not that far really :)

Surf kayaks are a big step up fro playboats and if you love surfing then a worthwhile investment. 3 boats is fine, ( I have 5 at present)

I would personally go for a boat with a bit more volume in the tail and a slightly wider knee position than the maverick, such as the Neutron or the Valley Storm which will be easier to handle and both nice boats to surf.

Or you could pick up a second hand composite surf kayak I believe Denzil is selling his Neutron (unless its allready sold?)

Have fun and if your ever in need for some surf kayakers to keep you company pm me and can arrange a surf somewhere.

(edited for spelling error)

av.surfer · Post by **av.surfer** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:30 am

I work in Leicester on 4 on 4 off shifts it takes me 2 1/2 hrs to get back home on a good day and 3 hrs on a bad one so its not that bad. I live in Swansea. You'll be amazed what a differance there is in a proper surf boat, go for it! I had a Maverick the sitting position is a bit straight legged and not much volume in the tail if you can get used to it though its a good starter surf boat and they always crop up on ebay.
Matt

younggun · Post by **younggun** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:07 am

Plastic boats are good but you really want composite. Keep an eye out here and on ebay and they often come up. It is definitely worth getting a surf boat, the speed and control they offer is so superior to any other boat in the surf.

StoneWeasel · Post by **StoneWeasel** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:37 am

If you are into your surfing then I would highly recommend getting a surf boat, the increase in performance you will get over a playboat is staggering.

It is worth trying to borrow a few different boats for a play first before you decide on what boat to get, I do appreciate this may be a bit difficult being as land locked as you are. If you could get to any of the surf comps then there would be plenty of different boats that people would be more than willing to let you try, unfortunately that may not be that practical.

Plastic is an all right place to start if you are on a tight budget but the performance increase you get from a composite boat definitely makes them worth the extra money in my opinion.

Before I start spouting off boat names to try though how big / heavy are you? as this will make a difference to what boats will suit you best.

Denzil

P.S. Three boats is certainly not excessive, I have seven and three of them are surf specific.

Bhoyo · Post by **Bhoyo** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:25 pm

how big / heavy are you?

90ish kgs and 6ft, not the best for fitting in most boats.

And coming round to the idea of 3 boats (that will increase as i hear sea kayaking is good fun)

Chris when are you coming over for an Evening session with WKCC and i will drop you a line about going surfing - can you talk the other Worcester uni boys (Pikey and Craig) into it?

Chris C · Post by **Chris C** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:14 pm

Sorry Ive been meaning too, my lectures are Monday and Tuesday and with a dissatation to write aswell havent been staying around worcester much at the minute will probably bring a boat up this week for a play @ hpp and WKCC pool seesion.

At your weight I would probably disregard the maverick and look at the other I recommended.

Ive been working on Geurnsey and pikey but too much work to do :S will keep working on them

See you soon

StoneWeasel · Post by **StoneWeasel** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:24 pm

I agree with Chris that you might as well forget the Maverick, your a bit too big for it.

Boats worth looking at would definitely include:
Mega Neutron
Mega Scarab? (you might be a bit light for this)
Mega Reflex
Mega Impulse (some prefer the more playboaty seating position of the impulse)
Valley Rush (I think you should fit in this ok?)
DB Fusion (Likewise, I think this will fit you fine?)

Have fun and I hope to see you in the surf sometime soon,

Denzil

Denzil

Chris C · Post by **Chris C** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:33 pm

You can try my fusion out sometime, will have to pull the foam foot rest out (ive got short legs) awesome boat very aggressive rails which make it a bit weird at first.

Denzil have yu sold your Neutron yet? as this could be a good boat to consider and a good price too!

StoneWeasel · Post by **StoneWeasel** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Chris C wrote:Denzil have yu sold your Neutron yet? as this could be a good boat to consider and a good price too!

It is not actually sold yet but there is a waiting list of interested people. I really need to get my bum in gear and sort some photos out.

Denzil

ChrisBainbridge · Post by **ChrisBainbridge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:53 pm

Hi, I bought a valley storm to go surfing. For £450 you get a lot of boat. The seating position is pretty good for a playboater. I love it. You can see some pictures here.

I live in Derby and may get a pass to come to HPP on Sunday if you want to try it. send me a pm if you are interested.

Chris

Bhoyo · Post by **Bhoyo** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:17 am

You can try my fusion out sometime, will have to pull the foam foot rest out (ive got short legs) awesome boat very aggressive rails which make it a bit weird at first.

Cheers Chris

woody · Post by **woody** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:22 am

I bought a mega reflex on the strength of two shots in my bigger mates mega scarab. It was like opening a door into a whole different world called Faster Bigger. Hope to get some pics/review of reflex this weekend. Strongly recommend a decent composite they are awesome.

Woody

StoneWeasel · Post by **StoneWeasel** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:02 am

ChrisBainbridge wrote:Hi, I bought a valley storm to go surfing. For £450 you get a lot of boat. The seating position is pretty good for a playboater. I love it. You can see some pictures here.

I live in Derby and may get a pass to come to HPP on Sunday if you want to try it. send me a pm if you are interested.

Chris

There are some nice pics there, glad to see you are getting on in your boat. Any plans to join us at any of the comps this year?

Denzil

woody · Post by **woody** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:53 pm

Having now ridden my reflex in some quality three footers today I can confirm that it is in a different class from a plastic riverboat. Its hard to describe its just bloody awesome.

Get one you won't regret it.

Woody

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:02 pm

I have a neutron and it rocks!! I just wish I could roll the damm thing.

woody · Post by **woody** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:33 pm

Jeez I dont much fancy not rolling, i got trashed several times today, this boat has a steep learning curve. How do you cope Naefear?

Woody

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:43 pm

I swim 3 out of 4 capsizes at the moment!! I just stick to beach breaks. Most times I get up it involves the kayak lying on its side and me sculling up the last bit but it is hard. I watched with fear as a couple of heros went out at Brims ness last weekend in play boats. It is a fearsome place with lots of rocks just under the surface and lots of tangling kelp swaying in the waves.
I fair much better on the river with my rolling. I think I need some professional rolling lessons as I have a self taught roll that is not the most reliable.

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:46 pm

Steep learning curve unforgiving edges and multiple trashings :-( Grin factor when you catch a nice wave and get a fast smooth ride priceless. Makes up for all the swimming!

woody · Post by **woody** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:57 pm

Reflex very unforgiving edges. Thats why its awesome. Turns..... well were working on those. Wish I lived up north. Magicseaweed always seems to have Thurso on at least three stars. Have you tried reverse screw?

Woody

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:34 pm

No I normally go for a normall screw roll or a C to C roll. Sometimes however the wave just catches my paddle and spits back the right way up. Dont know how but I aint complaing. The problem I have is we have no real proper rolling coaches up here that I could go to. The folk I paddle with all give different suggestions as to what to try but it is difficult to take it all on board and try it out.

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:36 pm

We have great surf up here! Loads of beaches that are fairly friendly and some very impressive breaks that are not so friendly. 6 surfers out would be considered busy at any on the breaks.

StoneWeasel · Post by **StoneWeasel** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:04 am

naefearjustbeer wrote:I swim 3 out of 4 capsizes at the moment!! I just stick to beach breaks. Most times I get up it involves the kayak lying on its side and me sculling up the last bit but it is hard. I watched with fear as a couple of heros went out at Brims ness last weekend in play boats. It is a fearsome place with lots of rocks just under the surface and lots of tangling kelp swaying in the waves.
I fair much better on the river with my rolling. I think I need some professional rolling lessons as I have a self taught roll that is not the most reliable.

Important things for rolling your surf boat with high success rate are to make sure you are padded out in it well, you don't want to be wasting you energy moving yourself around inside the boat you want to be moving the boat. The other important thing is to get your weight forward quickly, leaning back will only cause you to fall back in or flounder part way up, personally I favour the reverse screw roll as you are automatically leaning forward at the end but any roll is fine as long as you get your weight forward quickly.

Hope that helps,

Denzil

woody · Post by **woody** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:50 am

Denzil you are damn right about padding. It took me four goes to get up after a big wave attempted closure and I fell out me seat (a bit). Was up just in time to get trashed by the best set of the day breaking on my head. Oh and yes you are right I too am using a forward screw roll and it is the rear part that takes me back in but when I am in my seat it is pretty bombproof. Any tips for how to pad the hips (except eat more pies), I am having trouble since the seat doesnt really extend high enough in my boat. I tried padding the lower part of the seat but I had it too tight yesterday and couldnt really get into the classic rudder position.

Woody

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:18 pm

This type of roll? I agree with the padding on the hips the seat is low so any padding I stick on it is too low to help grip me into my kayak.

RobL · Post by **RobL** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:22 pm

I paddle a plastic Neutron, and also have trouble rolling!!!!!!
I think its a definate advantage backdeck rolling, BUT I slip out of the seat a lot.
Chatting to my mate Marc today (who was paddling over at Steamers for the world champs) the answer seems to be lap belts. I've ordered a diving weight belt and know the plastic seat will need a bit a of reinforcing.
Anyone else done this or got any tips on best fitting positions for a plastic Neutron?

JohnK · Post by **JohnK** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:19 pm

naefearjustbeer wrote:I fair much better on the river with my rolling.

I don't understand this. Maybe it's just the harder rails on the surf boat, or lack of volume in the tail but that can happen with a playboat. On a river you would normally want to come up as soon as possible. When surfing you've generally got more time. Do you wait for the turbulence to die down before attempting to roll? This, along with Denzil's comments about padding, would make it easier. Also whilst waiting for the turbulence to die down, tuck up and hold your paddle shaft close to your chest. This will help prevent you getting ripped out of your boat.

I use a screw roll which gets you lying back, and after having surfed a waveski for many years with lack of volume at the rear my roll has developed such that I skull forward again at the end of the sweep.

naefearjustbeer · Post by **naefearjustbeer** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:31 pm

A lot of the times whan I attempt a roll I end up laying on my side in the water sculling however I am over the back of the kayak which means my hip flick is very weak and I dont often mange to get back up I generally fall back over and try agin until I run out of air.
I gave a shot of my surf boat to a very strong paddler and they struggled to roll it, they reckoned if I learn to roll my surf kayak then I could probably roll anything. They also said I would need to finish my roll in a forward position to ensure that I dont fall back in again. As for lap belts I would say no way until you are absolutely sure that you will not be having a swim anytime ever as it is an extra thing to undo in a possibly nasty situation.

feelingjustfine · Post by **feelingjustfine** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:14 pm

naefearjustbeer wrote:

I watched with fear as a couple of heros went out at Brims ness last weekend in play boats. It is a fearsome place with lots of rocks just under the surface and lots of tangling kelp swaying in the waves.

Hey man that rocked! Was super cool especially with the Scottish surf comps going on there, lovley break and a very refreshing smackdown to go with it. Don't think I'd have gone out there in any other playboat other than my Fish though, nice to be able to rely on speed like that in surf to get you away from a kelp tangle trashing!
So the secret to rolling ANY boat is to get hand rolling or coming up on a PFD, then something a little less boyuant, or get a set of these baby's, they take it out of your shoulders alot after using them for a while but really make your technique get nailed. Thats what it's all about, strength has sweet FA to do with rolling, get hand rolling and you're laughing! Backdeck rolling is very usefull in surf, when up at Thurso I think I only rolled normally(meaning non backdeck) when the wave had passed over me but pretty much all the time the back deck is the one to go with that makes rolling weird boats that have little volume at the back come up well. Once you've nailed hand rollling try to replicate the hand rolling action with paddles and put as little pressure on them as possible, this should lead you pretty close to the BD roll. It's all technique and its normally the head that causes the problems on any boat, although it seems like coming up at the back of the boat is impossible it actually is pretty straight forward and cabn work very well as long as you head come out last and your weight is centered. Trust me, try rolling a DR Fish with "T" seat in it and you'll see what I mean! If you find yourself having to put lots of effort into a roll then it is best just to stop and chill out underwater for a while to get your head toghther and when you go to set up think about nothing other than the technique needed to get the kayak upright and concerntrate on keeping that HEAD DOWN all the way till the boat is upright, then instead of skulling put in a swift low brace and try to head butt the spraydeck on the other side to that which you have just come up on, putting you into a very stable and powerfull position to do whatever it is you want to do next. Failing this buy Kent Fords rolling video, that should do the trick!

Bhoyo wrote:

OK so I may live as far away from the sea as it gets (Other than Leicester I think!!) but I am addicted to surfing.

I have also changed my previous 'all round' boat and now got river runner and a playboat.

It was on taking the playboat surfing and seeing the improvement from the alrounder, I was wondering if a mega maverick or similar would be a good investment and if the do surf that much better?

Also if having three boats would be classed as starting my own club??

Thoughts????

Get a Squashtail, then you will be out performing lots of specialist surf kayaks and be able to have the fastest playboat on any river wave that you can find and play in holes too. They are speed deamons to the utmost degree and will rock your world in the surf and fill your every need at any other inland play location/ river run you want to do.

Chris.

greensurfer · Post by **greensurfer** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:22 pm

It's the hard rails you tend to get stuck on the edge you definately need a good hip flick, back deck rolls seem to work better. There is a vid somewhere on an Irish waveski site that shows an easy way I'll try to find it. The Megas could do with adjustable thigh hooks like Pyranha use. Also surf boats are naturally unbalanced i.e. long nose and short tail just keep practicing.

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