"Stirrup" Rescues^

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MikeB
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"Stirrup" Rescues^

Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:36 am

When / why / how do you use a "stirrup" to rescue someone? What do you do with your end of the stirrup? (Hold - attach to yourself/the boat - what)

What works best as a stirrup?

Mike
Last edited by MikeB on Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bertie..
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Post by Bertie.. » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:53 am

Hi Mike,

I always carry a stirrup, but rarely use it, as I prefer to make a first quick attempt to get someone back in using a simpler style of rescue.

That said, I've used the stirrup in anger before. I carry a 4m length of tape, untied, which gives me options.

The quickest and easiest approach is to tie a bight into the tape which will fit a foot. Raft sideways onto their boat, dangle the footloop over the other side of the boat, then take the tape under your boat and place back over both boats so they can then use the footloop as a step-up and the other end to pull-up.

Other options include tieing the tape into a big loop, which can then looped over their boat, around me, and held in place on my cockpit rim. But this does mean you're trapped into the rescue, whereas with the other you can escape it by sliding out.

It's worth getting out with some friends and experimenting with stirrups as they can be really useful in certain circumstances, but my advice would be to have them as a contingency plan not to rely on them. Keep it simple, and focus on getting them back into their boat ASAP.

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Geoff Seddon
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Post by Geoff Seddon » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:26 pm

I also carry a piece of tape in my BA with a loop tied in both ends and a snaplink. I've not used it in anger, as a stirrup, because of the increased faff factor associated with introducing another element into what can be, at least for the person in the water, a stressfull time. I've practised with it and don't like it, so it's another tool in the box, albeit one that's at the bottom and going rusty. There's usually far tooo much crashing and banging going on, not to mention zooming up and down, for me, or them, to be bothered with a piece of tape, with which the rescuee also could do with practising beforehand. Make a lee, hoik them in, consider pumping out, bugger off somewhere better, have a fag. Or, tow them somewhere better, empty their boat, get them in, have a fag. None of this answers the question obviously, just my little Friday rant.

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capsized8
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Stirrup

Post by capsized8 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:05 pm

Hi Mike

Stirrup re-entry is a as already said a faff and needs practise.

The why "bit" - Getting a very tired possibly injured paddler back into thier boat. I have never been able to figure this reason out, as I find this method of re-entry to be cumbersome and very ungainly.

The simplest way (trusting you have a Waterbuster to hand) is to support the capsized boat on its side and let the victim "float/swim" in, pulling them and the boat upright when they are in position. Drop pump into cockpit and empty.
peace and good padlin.

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:14 pm

Keep it simple, and focus on getting them back into their boat ASAP.
Couldnt agree more, two situations that may require a stirrup are an injured paddler and or a gentleman with a fuller figure, both of which scenarios would be better served with a scoop type rescue. There is less chance of adding to or exaserbating any injury and you wont finish up with 18 stone of wobbly deck cargo:-)
I also have a strong aversion to putting my hand (which I use a lot) between two boats in a seaway.
Like Geoff and Bertie I carry and have practised a lot with stirrups, I like a simple 3-4 mt length of tape, mine gets a lot of use as an aid to carrying loaded boats, for which its worth carrying all the time.
of course if its an assesment I describe it as a rescue sling thing, or strop, which is what Geoff goes into whenever they are mentioned! Along with Fan tows and putting drain holes in his wellys.

Phil

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Post by Bertie.. » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Hi Pete,

I too use that rescue approach for certain situations. Im interested in your thoughts on it in rough water conditions? Do you still rate it as the simplest way?

I'm interested as I tend to think of it as a 'last resort' type rescue for someone who is not capable of helping themselves as it does put some strain on yourself as the rescuer when trying to right their boat again.

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:28 pm

Thanks all - keep them coming.

Thoughts on these perhaps?

1: Passing strops etc under boats always strikes me as adding a further potential for disaster / "faff factor" - anyone any views on some form of hook / clip on one end of the strop, to attach to the lines of your boat (or the casuality - which?) to secure it for the casuality to climb on.

2: Big loop to go round your body (rather than the cockpit) - strop dangled over casuality boat.

3: Use of a waist-tow belt - stirrup doubles as a contact-tow line.

Mike

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Post by Bertie.. » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:34 pm

1 & 2 - I'm never keen on anything which ends up with me attached to the person being rescued in a way that I can't escape from. With both 1 & 2 I think there is potential for you to end up in a position where your victim becomes a dead-weight (e.g. onset of counter panic etc) and you would not be able to extricate yourself and your boat.

3 - I'm not sure what you're describing, but the comments above would stand..

... and don't get me started about sea kayakers wearing 'wellies'!

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:05 pm

Bertie.. wrote:
... and don't get me started about sea kayakers wearing 'wellies'!
- - oh go on - you know you want to - -

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capsized8
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Stirrup vs Scoop

Post by capsized8 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:56 pm

Bertie.. wrote:Hi Pete,

I too use that rescue approach for certain situations. Im interested in your thoughts on it in rough water conditions? Do you still rate it as the simplest way?

I'm interested as I tend to think of it as a 'last resort' type rescue for someone who is not capable of helping themselves as it does put some strain on yourself as the rescuer when trying to right their boat again.
Hi Bertie

I have to say yes. In rough conditions you risk capsize whilst emptying the victims boat (assuming conditions will allow), setting up the stirrup and then untangling everything. Also in rough conditions it can be very difficult to re-enter using a stirrup.
With the scoop you do not need to consider emptying the boat making rescue quicker and providing you keep the victim on the back deck you should be able to get them upright by timing your actions with the movement of the water. With the added benifit of then being rafted with no tapes/slings to deal with. Clip a short tow drop in the pump etc
peace and good padlin.

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:05 pm

I'm interested as I tend to think of it as a 'last resort' type rescue for someone who is not capable of helping themselves as it does put some strain on yourself as the rescuer when trying to right their boat again.
Hi Bertie,
its actually I think our first resort, its certainly become our usual method, but the variant favoured is the lead leg roll in over back deck method which doesnt put any undue strain on you as a rescuer.
In extremis there is also the option of effectively floating a person into the cockpit for which practise is required (and timing) however its a lot easier if you use a "hand of God " approach to righting the boat.
Electric pumps needless to say are great!
Unlike clomping great Toe-tector wellys on your gel-coat!

Phil

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capsized8
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Stirrups vs Scoop

Post by capsized8 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:29 pm

Pelagic wrote:
.
Hi Bertie,
its actually I think our first resort, its certainly become our usual method, but the variant favoured is the lead leg roll in over back deck method which doesnt put any undue strain on you as a rescuer.

Phil
Hi Phil

Got to agree with the lead leg and roll belly onto back deck, very easy to do in a big sea and also very quick. What is surprising about it is how many paddlers are not actually aware of the technique.
peace and good padlin.

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:40 pm

Olly showed us a couple of years ago now in Penryn Mawr, it was one of those "why didnt I think of that?" moments!
Used it ever since.

Phil

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:13 pm

Describe please - -

Owen
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Post by Owen » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:36 pm

Its quite simple, start as for a T rescue, put the boats side by side and steady their boat.

Get the swimmer to the the outside (the oposite side to the one your on) and face forward.

They put the arm nearest to their kayak across the back deck just behind the cockpit and get hold of something solid like a deck line.

Then they kick up their feet and put the heel of their outside foot into the cockpit and heel hook behind the combing.

With the other hand on the back of the cockpit just roll over. They can pull with their arms and back kick with the leg thats heel hooked.

Its best if they do a 360 degree roll, that way they land arse first in the seat.

Much earier that all that climbing over the back deck and it keeps the centre of gravity down low.

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:46 pm

Good description - thanks.

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Post by CaileanMac » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:54 pm

MikeB,

There a section in Olly's Sea Kayak Safety DVD which shows the 'roll in' method both on flat water and realistic water (bumpy). Ideal for the visual learner if I remember rightly??

As with every re-entry technique - one man's poison is another's tonic... The only way to find out is to experiment and practice in the deep, blue ocean...!

CaileanMac

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Geoff Seddon
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Post by Geoff Seddon » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:04 pm

This'll probably be wrong but here we go.

The rescuer holds on to the empty boat and after dealing with paddles etc. gets the person in the water to lie on their back alongside their own boat, with their feet towards the bow, but adjacent to the cockpit, whilst holding onto a deckline with the hand nearest their boat. Next and this is where co-ordination is required, lift the outside leg over the other and into the cockpit, whilst reaching with the outside hand for a deck line on the opposite side of the boat. This should result in the rescuee lying face down on their back deck, with one leg in the cockpit and one out. The next stage is to continue to roll another 180 degrees, which will bring the other leg into the boat and put them in a position to slither down onto the seat, hey presto. If properly executed, until sitting on the seat the rescuee has not been any higher than a body width above their boat and so the strain on the rescuer is minimal. Tipping the rescuee's boat towards them makes their first move easier, but increases the work done by the rescuer. As an extreme case, as has already been mentioned, the boat can be tipped to the vertical so that no exertion is required by the rescuee, all they then have to do is swim their legs into the cockpit and facing their back deck, hold on whilst the boat is righted by the rescuer.

I think that's it. If people put the wrong ie. inside leg in the cockpit first no big problem it's just a bit harder work for them and the rescuer, who is in a position to grab hold of stuff and yell and ball, or offer helpfull advice and encouragement in a calm and soothing manner, whilst maintaining eye contact with the incompetant b**t**d who just fell in.

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Helen M
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Post by Helen M » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:05 pm

Owen wrote:Its quite simple, start as for a T rescue, put the boats side by side and steady their boat.

Get the swimmer to the the outside (the oposite side to the one your on) and face forward.

They put the arm nearest to their kayak across the back deck just behind the cockpit and get hold of something solid like a deck line.

Then they kick up their feet and put the heel of their outside foot into the cockpit and heel hook behind the combing.

With the other hand on the back of the cockpit just roll over. They can pull with their arms and back kick with the leg thats heel hooked.

Its best if they do a 360 degree roll, that way they land arse first in the seat.

Much earier that all that climbing over the back deck and it keeps the centre of gravity down low.
OMG - You are going to want us all to practice it! Aren't you?! Can we pick a nice day in the summer - when it isn't too cold please!

H - x

ps - you KNOW I hate getting my hair wet!

pps! - Are we rescuing you/ you us? or heaven forbid - Both! All scenarios are my worst nightmare and .. what I suspect, Mike means!

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:31 pm

CaileanMac wrote:MikeB,

There a section in Olly's Sea Kayak Safety DVD which shows the 'roll in' method both on flat water and realistic water (bumpy). Ideal for the visual learner if I remember rightly??


CaileanMac
LOL - us experiential, visual learners like that sort of thing!
Helen M wrote:
OMG - You are going to want us all to practice it! Aren't you?! Can we pick a nice day in the summer - when it isn't too cold please!
Oh yes. And stop whinging, you've got a drysuit. I don't. Somewhere off the north of Rona should be a good spot I think. One week - and counting.

Mike.

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:03 pm

Describe please - -
Owen and Geoff pretty much covered that. (Dads birthday, hes 79, had to pop over with his pressy)

A couple of points, this is actually one of those precious tecniques thats actually easier with a loaded boat, unless its Jims obviously in which case it would simply be a matter of floating off the extra deck cargo on a long line and retrieving it later, only joking, Jim never swims! Keep a clean back deck is the moral here.
As Cailean says practise in realistic conditions, everything is easy on flat water.
In the rougher stuff you may need to think about the rescuer being on the upwind side. Or the breaking wave side in races and overfalls.
Which may lead to practising "steering " flooded boats around.
This is certainly the case for the ladder rescue which is also on Olly and Leos DVD except I think they forget to mention it, make sure the top of the "T" is upwind or upwave (is that a word) or it floods the cockpit.

Helen, if you follow all the good advice here you shouldnt get wet at all putting Mike back in the boat :-)

Phil

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foxy
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Post by foxy » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:13 pm

I once paddled with a bloke in Toe-teckter wellies!!!!!
Nemo Malus Felix

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Pelagic
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Post by Pelagic » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:40 am

Hi Phil, what you doin over here?

Did he look like this?
Image
Kinda old, with mad hair?
Phil

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Post by foxy » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:32 pm

Pelagic wrote:Hi Phil, what you doin over here?

Did he look like this?
Image
Kinda old, with mad hair?
Phil

AAAAAHHH!!!! That was 'im! Great big wellies!!

I should be careful what I say now he has been elevated to dizzy heights!
Nemo Malus Felix

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Geoff Seddon
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Post by Geoff Seddon » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:02 am

Carefull you, he's now a mad keen open-boater, for which the works issue capper wellies are also eminently suitable.



Non illigitemi carborundum

ian.miller
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Post by ian.miller » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:19 pm

I like stirrup rescues and would always include them as an option for recovery of a paddler from the water. The fact is that differing conditions and differing weight/experience/physical condition of the casualty will always require you to evaluate the best way ahead and carrying a few meters of 8mm non floating rope is always a handy option which works in most situations. I know of at least one couple where if the 9 stone women is rescuing her 18 stone partner it is the only option she has if she doesn't want to end up you with a submarine entry and a full cockpit. The method I use drapes the stirrup over the paddle, is not really a faff, can be set up one handed, is easily explained (grab this and drape it over the paddle) and importantly doesn't tie you into the rescue. The other sytem I've seen demonstrated( flat water,no wind,short boat ) involved passing the stirrup under your own boat using a skipping rope action over the bow. I can't even skip on dry land and the thought of sitting with both hands in the air trying to loop a rope over the bow of a sea boat in wind and waves leaves me cold. I know the paddle method does have some risk for the paddle but then I get round that worry by always using the casualties paddle!!

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Post by sub5rider » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:33 pm

ian.miller wrote:...... The method I use drapes the stirrup over the paddle, is not really a faff, can be set up one handed, is easily explained (grab this and drape it over the paddle)
. Ian, could you go for the easy explanation please? I know how the "other" method works but cannot visualise this method ....just where does the paddle fit in?

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Post by ian.miller » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:37 pm

OK I was trying not get too involved in case people went to sleep. With boats side by side place a paddle across both decks so that some of the paddle shaft projects over the outside edge of the casualty's boat. Get the casualty to move round to a position beside the paddle end and pass the loop end of your stirrup to them under their own boat. This is easily done with the casualty often able to do most of the reaching. As someone pointed out you might have to watch you don't get fingers caught between boats if the sea is big. Get them to pass the loop end over the paddle and pull enough length out to dangle in the water at a depth that will give them an easy step up so that they can raise upper body above deck level. Take your end of the rope and with all slack pulled in wind it a few times round the paddle shaft between the boats. A few turns is usually enough to stop the rope pulling through and if you want you can lock the rope on itself which gives even more friction. Hold the paddle down with both hands and instruct the casualty to stand up in the loop and shimmy over the boat keeping as low as possible etc. You will find that your leverage on the paddle keeps the boat fairly level and if the stirrup is pushed close to the side of the casualty's boat there is little chance of the boat picking up more water. Really useful if you have emptied the boat and don't want to hang around somewhere silly pumping it out. There is as I have said a risk of paddle damage but in practise the initial weight the casualty puts on it is quickly transferred to the deck of their boat and I have never felt the paddle to be taking undue strain. you could I suppose place your own and the casualty's paddle side by side and half the risk of damage. You can also control this by the amount of downward pressure you apply.
The other method which I haven't tried in earnest looks good from the point of view of no paddle damage and a good deal of friction round both hulls to help hold it all in place. However as I said the method I was shown for passing the rope under your own boat raised some questions in my mind and it might in the end be best done if the casualty is on your bow and takes the end of the rope from there under your boat and over theirs as they move round into rescue position. In this method you simply hold on to the rope with one hand on the non rescue side of your boat and I assume you have to hold on to the casualty's boat to avoid getting pulled over when the strain comes on.

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capsized8
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Post by capsized8 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:38 pm

ian.miller wrote: I know of at least one couple where if the 9 stone women is rescuing her 18 stone partner it is the only option she has if she doesn't want to end up you with a submarine entry and a full cockpit.
I will always stress the importance of rescue practise. The number of people who shy away from it at the end of a paddle because "Oh no, I'm still dry" and other excuses!
However, as a comment to the above quote. My 13 year old daughter who is nowhere near 9st can get me (although I am only a mere 16st) back into my boat with the lead leg in and roll onto back deck technique, with ease.
Practise, practise and more practise
peace and good padlin.

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Post by Dave Thomas » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:05 pm

The other version of the 'stirrup' which I have seen (and tried - but only in unrealistically calm conditions) uses a sewn sling and karabiner as carried by many WW paddlers. Clip the sling round a paddle shaft (the casualty's, for preference - I like to have mine readily accessible at all times!), lower the paddle between the two boats and rotate so that it lies across the axis of the boats. Drape the sling over the foredeck of the casualty's boat and into the water to form the stirrup. Drawbacks: getting the right length of stirrup (though a 2m sling works OK for average-sized people) and hands between boats again. Plus point: pretty quick to rig. I guess that, without a krab, you could just larksfoot the sling around the paddle (I know: larksfoot = bad, but the sling is hardly going to melt with this application , immersed in British sea-water!).

Dave Thomas

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