Tree down on Dart.

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Ray Latham
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Tree down on Dart.

Post by Ray Latham » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:32 pm

There is a tree right across the left hand channel of surprise surprise.

It covers the rapid completely and there is no sneak route through. It is just above the slot drop and because of the light difficult to see untill you are in the left hand channel.

Higher water and you could be in trouble.

Cheers all.
Ray.

andy i
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Post by andy i » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:49 pm

Is any one keen to go and cut it out on thursday? Or one evening next week?

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Post by Ray Latham » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:25 pm

Seriously you havent seen it, (have you?). Its way to big. About a 2ft thich trunk lots of thick branches and right out across the river. I reckon probably a couple of ton in weight.

I think the rivers authority and the enviouroment agency will struggle to clear this one. I think the only way it can be done is to be reduced with a massive chain saw and gradually dragged to the side using a turfer.

But then I am not an forrestry comission bloke so am probably totaly wrong :o)

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Mark Allen
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Post by Mark Allen » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:05 pm

Ive got big chain saws, but I dont fancy walking up carring it!!!

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Ross W
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Post by Ross W » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:38 pm

what side to walk for surprise surpsie?

river left, or river right from newbridge
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Post by Ray Latham » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:47 pm

It would be river left from Newbridge, and not an easy walk to get to the rapid.

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Mark Allen
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Post by Mark Allen » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:04 pm

Had a good look at the tree today and it is hard to see from upstream and then, the lack of eddies is the next problem.

It will take a good day or two to get this beast out of the river with chainsaws, pullys, rope etc. - It needs to be done, if someone washes into it then they are going to be in big trouble. Anyone intrested in going to get it out?

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Ross W
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Post by Ross W » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:58 pm

Im more than willing to lend a hand, I also know of some others that would proberly be willing.

When you aiming to go do it?
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Mark Allen
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Post by Mark Allen » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:45 pm

wildross wrote:Im more than willing to lend a hand, I also know of some others that would proberly be willing.

When you aiming to go do it?
Lets see wot other people offer etc, but fairly soon.

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Post by Ray Latham » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:57 pm

If I am off of work on the days you chose I will come down and help out.

Cheers,
Ray.

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Post by jmmoxon » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:11 pm

This week looking rather too wet to be wandering around in the river.

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Post by Kayacb » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:35 am

Any day from Tuesday next week, water permitting.......................

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Tony Aiuto
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Post by Tony Aiuto » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:01 pm

Please forgive my ignorance, but is "surprise surprise" on the loop?

Some mates are going to paddle the loop on the bank holiday, will it be a problem?
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Post by Paul Smith » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:15 pm

No its not on the Loop.
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Mark Allen
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Post by Mark Allen » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:55 pm

In the next week or so what days are people free? And who?

Personally think this is going to be really hard to get the beast out of the water without it floating off in sections and jamming up the next boulder rapid.

Where would we put the branches? The ground is very steep , but we dont want them washing back into the river in the next big water!!!

What do other people think?

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Ross W
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Post by Ross W » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:36 pm

I'm free, most days untill sept!

Cut it up in to small chunks I think... then let it float down the slot, and pull it out in the pool below surprise surprise on river right.. would be easyer to pull it up on to the bank, instead of up the hill on river left.

Pull it in far enough, that it will not come out agian, As the power of the water in amongst the tree's will be far less powerful than on river left.
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Post by Kayacb » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:09 am

Any chance of a few pics so we can see it and have a few Ideas?

as for the branches, how about a few of the big aggregate sacks that sand is delivered in, fill them up with small logs, throwline/rope onto the loops at the top and swing it in the other side?

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Ross W
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Post by Ross W » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:12 am

The problem is, its a pain in the ass to get to... carrying all that extra stuff might be a bit of a hassle!
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Post by trickywhu » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:14 am

personally i would say leave it where it is for now. the main season hasn't started yet so its not yet too much of an issue. just inform the necessary contacts who can get it sorted out. You dont want to end up messing up the whole of surprise surprise!

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Post by Ross W » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:14 am

Also, would it be easyer to park up by venfor reservoir and walk down from there as a posed to the river left walk?
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Post by Kayacb » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:17 am

How Long is the trunk of this tree? Diameter? ad how long has it been in the water?

Edit: also any Ideas what type of tree?
Last edited by Kayacb on Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by trickywhu » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:17 am

wildross wrote:Also, would it be easyer to park up by venfor reservoir and walk down from there as a posed to the river left walk?
no. the path up from Newbridge is easier, but its still a pain in the ass to get to!

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Post by Ray Latham » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:28 am

To be honest I think it is to big a job for an unskilled and under kitted crew.

The tree is right across the rapid, cutting it away from the bank will be a reall (dangerous) headache and dragging it in is a non starter without some major equipement.

Then comes the question how do you get that type of heavy duty equipment down to the rapid.

This thing with the next high water will probably start to dam up that whole side of the river. If I was the land owner I would be concerned about that. Maybee leave it to them.

Nobody has managed to get the tree out of the bottom of Swallow falls and this thing dwarfs that twig.

Maybee wrong and am willing to try and help but I think this is not a job that will be seen off in a short time.

Ray.

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Le_bambino
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Post by Le_bambino » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:36 am

Nobody has managed to get the tree out of the bottom of Swallow falls
Think it's gone now Ray Ray!
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Ray Latham
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Post by Ray Latham » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:40 am

Le_bambino wrote:
Nobody has managed to get the tree out of the bottom of Swallow falls
Think it's gone now Ray Ray!

Thats messed up that argument then. Was it taken out or just washed away. Maybe we could get the same people to do this one ;O)

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Post by jadedkayaker » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:27 pm

Kayacb wrote:How Long is the trunk of this tree? Diameter? ad how long has it been in the water?

Edit: also any Ideas what type of tree?
The tree is a mature Oak. The trunk is at least a couple of feet in diameter. There's a huge root ball plus a load of lose debris and granite on the rock platform on the left bank, the branches stretch over to partially obstruct the right hand channel and the slot is completely blocked.

Principia estimated 2 tons - I'm no expert, but I think this would be conservative.

You don't want to be messing about in the river at current levels, even if you could get there, with the kind of machinery needed to deal with this. If it is going to be removed I would say that low summer (Ha!) levels would be required and it would probably have to be accessed by suitable transport via the rough track up the right bank.

Has anyone considered that someone probably "owns" this potentially valuable chunk of hardwood? Cutting it up and / or removing it could very well be the first illegal act by paddlers on the river (kayaking, of course, being not a crime).

No, guys, I'd say leave the tree alone and give the landowner a chance to deal with it. Meanwhile, let's use the right hand channel (which some of us used to in the old days, the slot being clearly too narrow....).

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Post by Kayacb » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:54 pm

"Has anyone considered that someone probably "owns" this potentially valuable chunk of hardwood? Cutting it up and / or removing it could very well be the first illegal act by paddlers on the river (kayaking, of course, being not a crime)."

What I was thinking. I have access to all of the equiptment which would be needed for such a task.

Next question is, who's land is it? They may not know the tree is down and may think that it's worth money sold as lumber, thus may remove it before it becomes too damaged?

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Mark Allen
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Post by Mark Allen » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:01 pm

Sod it lets leave it there. Cant be arsed. Paddle river right channel or portage river right seems the best options.

jadedkayaker
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Post by jadedkayaker » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:46 pm

Of course, we could always report it to the landowner / DNP / EA as a potentially dangerous obstruction to (legitimate) paddling activities....might produce some interesting feedback?

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Post by mattkp » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:49 pm

Hey guys, just been reading all your posts. The issue with just leaving this tree there is the problem could get worse. I appreciate the weather is unpredictable at present so agree wading around the river at the moment is not advisable especially with chainsaws and heavy equipment. With this in mind can we really accept that the relavant land owner is going to do this too or anytime soon?.....

Next dry spell we get i think we all need to get together and sort the issue out, im sure between people who have chainsaws, slings heavyduty pulleys etc this can be done. (possibly check the legality out before hand)?

Weather should improve sometime over the next two weeks so could be a goer to move it!

Simon Westgarth mentioned on the 'dart levels' page that this stretch of land could be managed by either Woodlands Trust or Bennor Estates? We could also find this out and get in touch before taking an action. Personally i think lets just get it over with and do it ourselves may take a day or two though.

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