Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

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Yellerbelly
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Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:10 pm

Not sure the best way to fix the broken nose of my Anas Acuta.

I've ground away the plastic padding that was holding the nose together. The incomplete shell of the upper part of the hull is just held onto the rest of the deck. The lower half of the hull is solid resin to seal the hole for the end toggle.

Thinking of taping everything together, covering the holes, standing the kayak on it's nose and filling the end with resin. Then applying a coloured layer of gelcoat to match.

Any better ideas?

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Kernowpete » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:07 pm

How about over filling it with thickened epoxy before putting it back together. Grind the join back and fill with colour matched gel coat?

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by pathbrae » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:41 pm

C'mon - you can't post that sort of picture without telling is how it happened.....

But I'd also go for the thickened epoxy to stick it back on then do a gel coat repair once it's back to being the correct shape.

Or alternately.....

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=127646

:-)
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Chris Bolton
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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Chris Bolton » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:25 pm

I think I'd patch the shell first, probably putting something inside as a former, and then clean it up and epoxy into place. Then tidy up the gelcoat. The boat doesn't look as if it has an outside seam, and if not I'd consider adding one - which would reduce the gelcoat tidying, and give a good attachment to the shell in case of further impact. Filling the nose with resin will probably work, but the resin will get hot and may crack; I don't think it would be a particularly strong repair, and if you're going to add weight you might as well get good value for it.

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Yellerbelly
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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:53 pm

pathbrae wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:41 pm
C'mon - you can't post that sort of picture without telling is how it happened.....

But I'd also go for the thickened epoxy to stick it back on then do a gel coat repair once it's back to being the correct shape.

Or alternately.....

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=127646

:-)
Not my fault, honest. Just bought it from the original owner and he didn't let on. And no, not for sale. I've been after one for too long!

I'd use thickened polyester resin (?) so that the polyester gelcoat would stick to it?

Chris, I think you're right that a lump of resin filling the nose would overheat. I've cast a lump of epoxy before and it bubbled and smoked like a lump of lava. To mend the shell I'll cut it off completely so I can get to the inside. Then glue it back on with a fillet of thickened resin.
The outside seam was just gelcoat which didn't stick very well and is very chipped. I'm having to completely redo it. Should tidy up the join.

Thanks all. . . . . Ben

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by mcgruff » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:21 am

Turn it into a dragon ship:

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by pugwash » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:17 am

It’s only mid January and I’ve already seen my favourite thread title of 2018!

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:13 pm

Like it Mr mcgruff. It already has the kicked up tail to go with it.

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by spiderman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:27 pm

I would go with kernowpetes suggestion, my ocean cockpit Anas is already nose heavy and a bit of a pain to solo carry without adding a bunch more weight at the worst poss spot,
I had two identical mini sea kayaks for my kids except one had the filled nose repair you suggested, they always fought over the one that didn't.
Anas
Qanik
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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by PeterG » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:40 pm

epoxy with glass beads made up to ice cream would build it up without much weight. You could put it on and spread it in, use the gelcoat fragment as a mould with a plastic sheet to stop it sticking and then use a richer epoxy mix to stick it all together. Then some matching topcoat followed by sanding and polishing.

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:15 pm

Chopped the end off completely. (sorry photo out of focus)

I'm going to try bridging the hole in the shell and create a flange inside the end of the top using polyester resin and fabric. Then using epoxy to reunite everything without gaps.
PeterG, I can see your way of creating the internal form then glueing to that form. Might use that. Thanks.
spiderman, the balance point is furthur forward than you'd expect, just back from front of cockpit. Currently no bulkheads and no footrest. This can only get worse as I put these back in.

Making the damage worse by removing the end makes it easier to fix.

. . . . Ben

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Ceegee » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:39 pm

I would just Dremel the fill out a bit, roughen the inside of the loose piece back to exposed fibres, then tape it in place, stand the boat on end and pour a yoghurt carton (150ml) of catalysed lay-up resin down the front hatch, careful not to splash the sides. Or you can make up a 150ml paste of lay-up resin and CSF trimmings, but then you will need to poke it down and mash it into place with a length of dowel.

When it starts to go "green" (jelly-like) peel off your tape and trim away any seepage with an X-acto blade, then clean externally with acetone. When cured, Dremel out the joint and do a standard gel-coat crack repair (if the cosmetics really matter that much to you).

Oh, and add a flow-coat seam, underlain by 1" woven tape, as suggested by others.

You will need a Surform for any chunky bits, sanding block and #200 wet'n'dry, acetone to clean up, a few rolls of 1" masking tape, 12m of 1" woven glass tape, around 250ml of lay-up and around 350ml of coloured flow-coat (or gelcoat with 2% wax-in-styrene) and a couple of 1" brushes. Prop the kayak at knee height on edge, and do each side on alternate days.

Post photos!

Cheers

Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Jim
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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Jim » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:17 am

Make a temporary mould by using some thin plastic - the side out of a 5l bottle usually works for me, I've used the technique a few times to rebuild broken seat flanges.
The plastic should be flexible enough to wrap around your nose piece and when taped cunningly in place it should match the curve and bridge the gap nicely - you could try something similar to make a flange at the end of either the boat or the piece. You can wax it if you want to ensure release, but PE/PP will release pretty will on its own.
Personally I would do the repair in epoxy and use peel ply to remove the amine layer for subsequent bonding, I have had no problem with polyester gel adhering to peel plied or sanded epoxy repairs.
After dry fitting and trimming / sanding for a good fit, I would mix up some epoxy with microfibres rather than microballoons, possibly add some silica to bulk it a bit - microfibres make a much stiffer paste which is stronger when cured.
moisten all around the edge of the hull and piece with a very little epoxy, then make up the bonding paste with microfibres and with a spreader create a sort of ridge of thickened epoxy all around the edge of the hull about 1cm high, then carefully settle the nose piece on the this and get it to the right position. Such a paste will not run away (if you mix it thick enough) so you can take your time, get the fit just right, fill any gaps you can see right away and then carefully clean up the gel coat with a thinners soaked rag. I would probably run a thin strip of peel ply around the seam at this point rubbing it gently onto the bead of epoxy (don't want to squeeze any more out) - this will save sanding later and tape it in place before taping the nose into position (just to make sure) and leave it overnight in a warm place.
When it has cured you can run the new outside seam over it, with minimal sanding on account of the peel ply.

I definitely would not trust to pouring any resin the full length of a kayak compartment, chances are it will coat the path to where you want it, but not pool as much as you hoped where you needed it, if it does pool the exothermic reaction will go crazy and will at least distort the nose if not set fire to it. Finally resin without fibre reinforcement is really weak, so all you will do is add weight without really increasing strength at all - a well made taped outside seam will probably be tougher than a nose full of un-reinforced resin....

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Ceegee » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:34 am

Not wanting to get into a debate Jim, and your fix is fine too, albeit a bit complicated IMO but:

1) 100ml of layup is hardly going to generate serious heat, or contribute structural damage, confined as it is to the last 2-3" of the bow
2) I DID advise mixing in plenty of finely chopped CSM (take a scissors to a handful of off-cuts and presto, a generous handful of 1" strands)
3) yes, a quantity of resin WILL/ DOES leak out under the tape, which both reduces the quantity inside, reducing curing heat and weight, and also seal the joints
4) this is easily removed externally while curing at the "cheese" stage with a knife, and then the exterior cleaned wit an acetone rag.

Pouring a cup of resin/fiber paste into the nose is exactly what manufacturers do to seal the nose. You can see this in the OP's photo,it is the material revealed under the broken section.It serves provide a solid base to drill the toggle cord hole through. Unfortunately in this case, a cavity (seen quite clearly in the photo background) was left between the "plug" and the upper deck, which presumably contributed to its breaking away. (It is THIS gap I am suggesting filling, as it should have been in the first place, after the broken deck section is taped back in place).
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:27 pm

My bit of string to the interweb is down so not able to upload photo at the moment.
I'm not so sure that the end pour was done after the hull was joined. I hadn't flowed into the upper shell. The deck is pretty thin. Looks like only one layer of CSM under the gelcoat at the end. There are bubbles in the gelcoat from new along the chines. I'm wondering whether this was a 'second'. Or quality standards were very different back then.

I've ended up doing it the most complicated way possible but the thing could punch a hole in a battleship! Photo (tells a thousand words) to follow.

. . . . Ben

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Grahamd » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:50 pm

When I damaged the end of my kayak, after repair, I used black flow coat. It looked good and I did not have to colour match, which is rarely fully successful.

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by Yellerbelly » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:46 pm

Image

This is what the nose of my Anas Acuta looked like before I glued it together again with thickened polyester resin. The middle component is made of castings from the inside of the repaired nose and the hull. Formed a lip inside the open end of the deck. Used polyester throughout. I worked out that it is 5 times cheaper than epoxy.

I don't think my original idea of standing the kayak on it's nose and pouring resin in via a funnel and tubeing would have worked. It would need 150-200ml of resin. I've cast an end knob onto a kayak before and this happened;

Image

About 100ml of epoxy bubbled and smoked as it solidified with bubbles in the resulting block.

btw THIS Dremel attachment has been very useful in carving the resin and gelcoat.

Thanks all. .. . . Ben

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Re: Rhinoplasty on an Anas Acuta

Post by pathbrae » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:36 pm

That looks very neat - can't wait to (not?) see the finished repair :-) (if you know what I mean....)


The chard lump of epoxy possibly had just a touch too much catalyst added??
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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