Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Discuss equipment, technology, gadgets, repairs...
Post Reply
LardPaddler
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:24 am
Has thanked: 5 times

Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by LardPaddler » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:17 am

I am currently looking to buy my first kayak. Originally I was set on the Scorpio HV, but a composite boat has been looming in my mind for sometime. Locally here in Norway, P&H and Tiderace are the main competitors. The nearest Valley dealer is over 5 hours away.

I am about 190cm tall and weigh 113kg or so, consequently many kayaks become too small and cramped. The Tiderace dealer mentioned that Tiderace will be coming out with a new model, the Xceed. The Xceed X is supposedly a bit smaller than the Xplore X, which seemed huge to me.

Has anyone seen, or know anything about the Xceed X? I also see that Nelo will be producing the next Tiderace kayaks, any thoughts about what this could mean for the quality?

I will mainly be comparing it to the Cetus HV, I think I would be too large for the Cetus MV.

Arthur
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:17 pm
Location: Near Cheltenham
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Arthur » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:34 am

Do yourself a favour and take a day out and go to the Valley dealer. I've just been buying my first sea kayak (after years of windsurfing, sailing and open canoeing) and looked at Tiderace, P&H and Valley. There's a suggestion of 'what if', when you say that the Valley dealer is 5 hours away.

Given my lack of experience, to say that from my shortlist I preferred paddling one particular Valley kayak by a mile, is probably immaterial. But to my eyes the Valley kayaks I saw looked to be in a different class in terms of fit and finish - a very subjective and unscientific verdict, I know.

But I'm glad I put in the miles, because I was originally determined to buy a Cetus and then seriously considered a Tiderace, but some 1000 miles later ended up with a Valley and couldn't be happier.

LardPaddler
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:24 am
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by LardPaddler » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:31 pm

I would imagine the Etain 17.7 would be the most suitable Valley kayak at my size?

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8035
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by MikeB » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:16 pm

Well, I'm the same height as you but marginally lighter "out of the shower" and having tried the big Etain I wasn't convinced it was a good fit. Neither was a Cetus, although I had very good service from a Quest. I've been paddling an XcapeX for some years, and bought an XploreX recently which I find is just grand. They are perhaps the only boats I've felt I fitted in properly, with room to move while still being connected to the boat. Mind you, the first time I tried an XploreX I thought it was a bit big - a view which has changed over the years, and I would add that I was heavier then than I am now.

As Arthur suggests though, do try a variety of boats as what's right for one person won't be right for another, irrespective of size. I find the seat and backrest combination in Tiderace boats to be excellent (once it's finally adjusted properly), whereas I don't get on with the Valley set-up at all. However, my wife didn't like any of the T/race boats she tried, and lusts after an Etain as a possible replacement for her Capella.

Fit and comfort are perhaps the most important criteria - then comes overall handling and performance and whether or not a bottle of whisk(e) will fit down past the skeg box!

Mike

Aled
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:40 am
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Aled » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:12 pm

Image

Here'e the Xceed family (Xceed_S, Xceed, Xceed_X) in development - the CAD render shows the plugs - these have been cut in foam and are at the fairing stage currently.

Xceed_S: 540cm long, 53 wide, 29.5 deep
Xceed: 540cm long, 54 wide, 30.5 deep
Xceed_X: 550cm long, 57.5 wide, 33.5 deep

LardPaddler
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:24 am
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by LardPaddler » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:32 pm

I am looking forward to try the Xceed X when it comes to Norway! What is the design idea behind this kayak Aled? Will it differ from the Xplore?

Aled
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:40 am
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Aled » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:54 am

"What is the design idea behind this kayak Aled?"

I'm not sure if you want to hear all this, you may prefer a simple straight answer, but I fancy a bit of a ramble, please indulge me...

I've only ever had a design 'killed off' once before, that happened when the Xtra replaced the Xtreme. All my other designs are still in production, dating from 1992. I still get more feedback about the Xtreme more than any other boat Tiderace has produced, and I suppose it is a bit of an unique design. But this time the cull is a little more serious - we're killing off all the original designs that 'made' Tiderace 10 years ago. The Xcite has been the single most successful design we've ever produced, it's inspired many replicas, and it's still our best selling model. As a design family, the Xplore has been the best seller, and this confirms that the vast majority of sea kayakers have expeditioning at heart.

But 10 years is a long time thinking. The Xcite, Xplore and Xplore_S were my first go at using digital design tools, and committing to the technology has certainly proved its worth. We've received a lot of feedback over the years about how our boats perform and it would be all too easy to just sit back and let the original designs rumble on and on. But we felt there was an opportunity here to gather up all the feedback 'positives' and use that as a design brief for the next generation. The Xceed is an attempt to bring this all together. For example, sitting sideways in a F3 chop - a boat will give you a feeling you interpret through the physical feedback - the amount of hip-drop you need to flex with as a wave passes under you and the amount of bounce-back you get as the boat falls into the trough and rebounds, and how this requires a flexing of the spine thorough to the sideways swing of the elbows. All the boats have a different character, and we can feel and appreciate the difference between designs. But the design is a measurable thing - it was originally conceived as lines on a screen from thoughts, feelings and measurements. The challenge that has engrossed me over they years is how to gather physical feedback though feelings and turn this into a physical shape. After getting to know how the shapes behave it became relatively straightforward to focus on the specific part of the hull that comes into play when that F3 wave washes under the boat, that defined bit of hull that does the work. All the best bits can be identified, e.g. that best bow for reducing burying when going upwind, the best stern profile for responding to a reverse sweep and edge when the paddler is at tipping point, and so on. The best bits in the end come down to pieces of geometry and surfacing, they can be singled out as separate parts and they can be brought together into a contiguous assembly. The Xcite did some thinsg really well and some things not so well, the Xplore did some things really well and some things not so well, the Xcape did some things really well and some things not so well, the Pace did some thing really well...

To design the Xceed: clearly identify the purpose for the design requirements based on user feedback and ethnography, pull together a collection of the best / most cohesive geometries and assemble, and make it faster and more stable!

The purpose of the Xceed? The Xtra has the roughwater stuff well covered, the Pace family is working well as an efficient ruddered expedition boat: we wanted a new focused design that delivers expedition capability in a skeged boat that's full of life and character.

User avatar
Mr Ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:51 pm
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Mr Ed » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:24 am

Aled,

Thanks for such a detailed response.

Have you any information at all about the lay-ups that will be available for the Xceed and Nelo in general?

Cheers!

Mr Ed

Arthur
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:17 pm
Location: Near Cheltenham
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Arthur » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 pm

LardPaddler wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:31 pm
I would imagine the Etain 17.7 would be the most suitable Valley kayak at my size?
Or the Sirona (16-4), which is more of a manoeuvrable day/weekend boat, that is expedition capable, rather than the Etain, which is a longer, heavier, less playful, expedition boat. Depends what sort of paddling you expect to be doing. As a fellow novice, OP, I decided I wanted a lively day/weekend boat that could be used for longer trips now and again, rather than a dedicated expedition kayak that would be longer, heavier and not as quick or fun to turn. YMMV as they say.

Aled
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:40 am
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Aled » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Hi Ed,
Layups haven't been finalised yet - I'm expecting finished samples of Pace and Xtra from NELO soon. The weights at the various manufacturing stages look very promising. Gelcoats will be epoxy compatible polyester (i.e. easily repairable) all layups will be in epoxy resin, all vacuum bagged, hull and deck to include a core material for stiffness as per our usual. The biggest 2 changes will be: no visible outside seam and no internal tape seam. NELO will use their proprietary raceboat joining technology into our sea kayaks. The hull laminate will directly overlap the deck during the laminating stage using bladder technology, the outside seam will be taped as usual but then made invisible. This will have an immediate dramatic effect on the appearance of the kayaks and allow for quite creative colour and graphic options in future. There will generally more carbon content within the laminate that we've ever had before.

TheEcho
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:11 pm
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by TheEcho » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:15 pm

I haven’t yet been able to try a Tiderace, but the Xcite-S was top of my untried dream shortlist for a new boat because I am small and want one boat to do everything, but mostly day paddling and rolling for fun. I wonder what should I be looking at now, and how would it compare? Hmmmm.....

User avatar
Mr Ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:51 pm
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Mr Ed » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:47 pm

Many thanks Aled.

I'm fascinated by the seamless finish and look forward to seeing the boats when they start to arrive in the UK.

Echo- I'd suggest you take a look at the Xtra. They really are magic on the water and an equivalent size to the Xcite-S. Either that or wait for a seamless Xceed-S!

Cheers.

Mr Ed

TheEcho
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:11 pm
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by TheEcho » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:17 pm

I am not convinced the Xtra would perform well for me, as I would be scraping the minimum paddler weight of 65kg, whereas the Xcite-S with 55-80kg would put me right in the middle. I do like a snug boat - my current frontrunner out of boats I have paddled is the Pilgrim.

I will await with interest the Xceed-S, which looks pretty, even if I don’t really do expeditions.

User avatar
MYSSAK
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by MYSSAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:12 am

I would not be as much concerned about recommended weigh range. We are all build differently and weigh is just one thing to take into account when choosing right boat. I'd say it's always best to try it to see how well do you fit in the kayak and how good (or not) it feels.
Although my wife is at bottom of the recommended weigh range for Xtra she is happily paddling HV version.

Michal

Titanic
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:22 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Titanic » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:31 pm

Is it possible to say when the Nelo built boats will be available to the general public? Thanks

Rogga
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:05 pm

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by Rogga » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:39 pm

NELO produced boats will be available next year ... dates to be announced in due course :)

User avatar
dc9mm
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:03 am

Re: Tiderace Xceed - anyone know anything about it?

Post by dc9mm » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:36 am

So NELO is now making all Tiderace boats? Just curious. I have a Pace Tour 17 made Feb 2015. The design of the rudder cables going through the bulkheads is POOR. They leaked like crazy. If NELO is now making all the boats might want o have them made were water doesn't poor through the bulkhead at the rudder cables. I sealed mine with a lot of lexall glue. iam in the USA if that makes any difference.

Post Reply