P&H Scorpio LV owners

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Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:20 pm

I'm planning to build a sea kayak and I get on well with the P&H Scorpio LV. I'm thinking about the cockpit and aiming for something similar. Could anyone give me some information, please - I know the cockpit width and length but how high is the cockpit front and back, please? Also what height are the knee/thigh braces?
Thanks.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:59 am

Good luck with your build Spikedog. I know the bigger Scorpio cockpit ergonomics suit me too but remember that the Scorpio is a swede form kayak, with the hull wide point behind the cockpit. Many of the self build kayaks I have seen are fish form, with the wide point in front of the cockpit. So you might be able to replicate some of the Scorpio ergonomics but depending on the design, the way your boat paddles may be different.

Douglas

Spikeedog
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Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:40 pm

Good point, Douglas. I hadn't considered that but it's Greenland style. The position of the seat and the rear bulkhead are the only fixed points - I can vary everything else (height and size/shape of cockpit, foot bulkhead, position of knee/thigh braces etc) and the deck is flat at the back and at the bow for about 3 feet then bulges in front of the cockpit.

Backwater
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:13 am

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Backwater » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:02 pm

Hi there.
Owner of scorpio lv mark 1. Best of luck with your build, its something i would love to have the time to try.

Measurements are a bit tricky because....
back of cockpit:
approximate rear deck height...195mm
very top of cockpit.................240mm
internal edge of cockpit...........220mm

front of cockpit:
approximate deck height..........260mm
very top of cockpit..................305mm
internal edge of cockpit ...........290mm

thigh grips are a bit harder due to shape, adjustability etc. i roughly measure 220mm from highest point of curved underside of thigh grip to the bottom of the boat directly under it.
anything else let me know.

PlymouthDamo
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Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by PlymouthDamo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:25 pm

I've been helping a long-legged mate sort out the dimensions for the Shrike he's building, and Nick's recommended that we try and emulate the shape of his existing boat which we know fits him. However, to do this, we're not going to be able to just use measurements from that boat as it's not hard-chined and he'll be sitting in a different position on the Shrike's vee-shaped hull. So instead we've had to first build the hull and our next job will be to sit him in it and set the following four dimensions so as to allow him to emulate the sitting position from his old boat:

1. Distance of foot bulkhead from the aft cockpit bulkhead.
2. Shape of the foot bulkhead.
3. Curvature of the masik (which sets the highest point of the top deck to allow you go get your legs inside the boat from a sitting position.)
4. Position/size/angle of thigh braces (although we'll probably add these as separate items at the end.

So it might be best if you just crack on with building the hull and get the aft cockpit bulkhead installed before calculating the dimensions for the foot-bulkhead, deck and thigh-braces. I made a rolling Shrike with the deck height lowered by 6cm and I found the only way I could get my knees to fit under the deck was to custom-build a masik which was more like a goal-post than Nick's curved design. My long-legged mate has lowered his deck by 3cm, and we're considering doing something similar on his. However, unless you're a giant, you should be able to set up a full-sized Shrike to be comfortable using Nick's standard masik design.

Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:31 pm

PlymouthDamo wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:25 pm
I've been helping a long-legged mate sort out the dimensions for the Shrike he's building, and Nick's recommended that we try and emulate the shape of his existing boat which we know fits him. However, to do this, we're not going to be able to just use measurements from that boat as it's not hard-chined and he'll be sitting in a different position on the Shrike's vee-shaped hull. So instead we've had to first build the hull and our next job will be to sit him in it and set the following four dimensions so as to allow him to emulate the sitting position from his old boat:

1. Distance of foot bulkhead from the aft cockpit bulkhead.
2. Shape of the foot bulkhead.
3. Curvature of the masik (which sets the highest point of the top deck to allow you go get your legs inside the boat from a sitting position.)
4. Position/size/angle of thigh braces (although we'll probably add these as separate items at the end.

So it might be best if you just crack on with building the hull and get the aft cockpit bulkhead installed before calculating the dimensions for the foot-bulkhead, deck and thigh-braces. I made a rolling Shrike with the deck height lowered by 6cm and I found the only way I could get my knees to fit under the deck was to custom-build a masik which was more like a goal-post than Nick's curved design. My long-legged mate has lowered his deck by 3cm, and we're considering doing something similar on his. However, unless you're a giant, you should be able to set up a full-sized Shrike to be comfortable using Nick's standard masik design.
Definitely sound advice. I'm going for the Shrike Too (too). I will do that when I get to that stage around about November I think but I'm just kinda planning it out and getting some background thinking at this stage. My rough calculation is that it'll be 30" long and 15" wide but I'll go for the keyhole shape if I can get the masik to fit. I'll bring the foot bulkhead forward.
Great to hear from someone with a bit of build experience to share. Thanks.

Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:33 pm

Backwater wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:02 pm
Hi there.
Owner of scorpio lv mark 1. Best of luck with your build, its something i would love to have the time to try.

Measurements are a bit tricky because....
back of cockpit:
approximate rear deck height...195mm
very top of cockpit.................240mm
internal edge of cockpit...........220mm

front of cockpit:
approximate deck height..........260mm
very top of cockpit..................305mm
internal edge of cockpit ...........290mm

thigh grips are a bit harder due to shape, adjustability etc. i roughly measure 220mm from highest point of curved underside of thigh grip to the bottom of the boat directly under it.
anything else let me know.

Excellent. Very useful for me to scope it out on the floor and maybe even a scale drawing. Hope the Scorpio has proved a good choice for you. I love it.

Spikeedog
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:38 pm

That's less than 9" leg clearance - lower than I thought.

Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:43 pm

Spikeedog wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:31 pm
PlymouthDamo wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:25 pm

2. Shape of the foot bulkhead.

So are you using the formula for the masik curve to re radius the foot bulkhead?

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by PlymouthDamo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:52 pm

On the first two Crowhurst boats I built (a full-sized Shrike and a Vember Expedition), I just used the standard foot bulkhead from the build plans. As far as I recall, I made them a few millimetres high so I could plane them flush with the gunwales later. My last boat was a Shrike-R, and on that I lowered the height of the foot bulkhead by 6cm to fit the rest of the boat. I didn't use any formulas to calculate the curve - so long as it fits your feet, is smooth/symmetrical and flush with the gunwales it will be okay to just do it by eye.

Backwater
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:13 am

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Backwater » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:23 pm

The Scorpio is a snug fit. I'm 5ft7 and size 8 boots and I do feel I'm wearing my boat. Not much room for stretching out. But I have enjoyed the Scorpio as a boat to go from newby to 3 star. The newer mark 2 models have been altered to give more knee room (raised front deck/lowered rear?)I believe and might be a better model to look at. I'm sure the wise heads of previous self builders are the best knowledge base. Good luck.

Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:10 pm

Backwater wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:23 pm
The Scorpio is a snug fit. I'm 5ft7 and size 8 boots and I do feel I'm wearing my boat.


Snap. Same size.

Spikeedog
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:49 pm

Has anyone got a set of useable templates for the Shrike they would be willing to sell so I can get started?

PlymouthDamo
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Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by PlymouthDamo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:10 pm

Unfortunately, I've always borrowed (then returned) the plywood templates from Nick as he lives nearby. The build manual has something in it about getting the electronic files printed into full-size paper templates at a high street printers for around £20. Alternatively, you could start a new thread asking to borrow someone's paper copy. They have been downloaded a lot so there must be loads of paper copies gathering dust out there, but few of the builders are likely to be looking at a thread about Scorpios.

If you go down the paper template route, then for the long panels, I wouldn't recommend cutting/drawing round the shapes - too fiddly and prone to movement and distortion. Instead, I'd tape the entire rectangular print-out to your plywood, then make regular dots along the outline using first a nail and then a felt-tip pen. Then join the dots.

Spikeedog
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Re: P&H Scorpio LV owners

Post by Spikeedog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:15 pm

Pinning the plan to the wood is definitely the way to go. I think it would be £30 to get them professionally printed but I'll need to look into who does them in the Aberdeen area.

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