Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

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Allan Olesen
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Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:28 pm

Are there any tips to replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable in a Finnish produced Tiderace Xplore Classic?

Everything seems firmly glued/cast together, and I am afraid that I will tear the hose apart when trying to pull it out.

I am also wondering whether the hose continues all the way down through the fibre glass "wing" on the skeg box?

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pathbrae
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by pathbrae » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Does the outer cable need to be replaced? A bit of self annealing tape and a new inner might be all that's needed??
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:03 pm

pathbrae wrote:Does the outer cable need to be replaced?
Trust me: It does.

It is broken in at least 4 places and feels very brittle.

PlymouthDamo
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by PlymouthDamo » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:09 am

That gunk splodged around the cable inside the cockpit leading up to the skeg control box looks like a repair someone has done - perhaps the system has had a leak in the past? If it's epoxy, then it will be tough to get rid of, and you might be forced to gradually cut it away using a narrow sharp chisel.

I've recently removed a skeg cable from a plywood boat. I found the cable hadn't stuck to the epoxy, so I was able to yank it around a bit and then pull it away from the epoxy. However, my cable wasn't 'buried' like yours is - it was just secured where it went through holes in the bulkheads.

If I had to replace that cable, my approach would be to chisel/pull out as much of the old one as possible, and then secure a new one alongside the old one. You'd be better off using cable-ties to keep it in position rather than burying it in epoxy. If the only function of that 'wing' on the skeg box is to guide the cable up and around the luggage area, I'd probably hacksaw it off and secure a new cable fitting direct to the top of the skeg box and then fix the cable route using cable ties. The outer cable needs to be held securely or else the whole cable wiggles around and the wire doesn't move inside so the skeg doesn't work properly. Cable ties are adequate to secure it. I don't know the skeg control mechanism used in that boat, but you can probably make one of Karitek's fit. Where you have to secure the cable to the skeg and the skeg fitting to the skeg box, you can easily do this by drilling/epoxying.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:25 pm

Thank you for your comments.

I will not remove the "wing". I suppose that they used the materials and labour to put it there for a reason, so I will stick to it. At least, it moves the possible leaks between cable hose and skeg box much higher up above the water line.

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Erling
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Erling » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:27 am

Have you tried asking Tiderace? I have found them to be very helpful for technical questions as this.
The older I get, the better I used to be.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:57 pm

Erling wrote:Have you tried asking Tiderace? I have found them to be very helpful for technical questions as this.
I tried yesterday after your post. No response today, though.

Yesterday, I also started pulling the bits of cable hose out of the kayak. I have delayed it a bit because the skeg kind of worked as it was, so I did not want to pull anything apart before I had received a new cable hose. As I feared, the cable hose sits very tight in the skeg box. I was not able to pull it out with a pair of pliers.

Aled
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Aled » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:05 am

I've not looked at this sub-forum for a long while, so please forgive the lateness of my response...

The skeg you have in your boat is a proprietary design from Charger Composites (CC), Finland. It was the in-house system they fitted to all kayaks built by them at this time. The hulls were laid without skeg box to make vacuum bagging easier. Skeg boxes were laid up in glass off two moulds, left and right side. These parts were then joined with Sikaflex, the skeg pipe sandwiched in at this time. The pipe runs all the way from the tip of the hook/wing to the entrance hole inside the skeg. This assembly was then glassed to the hull of the boat prior to joining the hull and deck. I'm a little surprised that the tube has decomposed, we normally specify nylon, but your tube could be CC proprietary...

I've never made this repair, so this advice is theoretical but based on probable and likely solutions. You have 4 options in my opinion.

1. Source a nylon tube with inside diameter of 6mm, 1/4 inch, or slightly greater, and slide short lengths of this over the break points, glueing them in to make a watertight seal, creating a splint over the break(s).

2. Replace most of the pipe with 4x6mm nylon pipe, and fashion a gland or splint (as above) over the ends to join onto the remaining pipe stubs at the control and skeg box ends.

3. If all of the pipe is suspect, remove as much of it as you can by cutting or grinding. Drill into the glass hook/wing (directly down the old tube) with a 6mm drill. Access to this will be extremely tight, I'm hoping it's possible... Go as far as you can without veering off the curve. Push in the new length of pipe and use the skeg wire to maintain alignment. When the wire starts to snag, pull the tube out until the wire travels freely. Glue-in the pipe with some SciGrip methacrylate (25ml syringe), then do the same at the control end - this end should be easier as the pipe will most likely pull out once all the glass and "spockle" filler (CC proprietary term) have been ground away.

4. Probably the most radical but direct approach - cut off most of the hook/wing, leaving a good inch or so. With an extra long 6mm drillbit, drill straight through from the skeg box into the boat, following the old pipe initially. Push the new 6mm pipe down the drill hole, from the inside, until it's flush, use methacrylate to bond it in. Fit the control end as in option 3.

I'm a bit dismayed that this supposed 'lifetime fit item' has not lasted. My personal preferred option would be 4, but it's all theory...
Aled

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:49 pm

Thank you for your response, Aled.

I have ended up working on a solution similar to your suggestion #2 a few days ago, and I think it will work out.

If this tube never degrades, I can better understand that I got so few responses in this forum and in the Danish forum where I first tried. Anyway, the tube is really bad. I wonder if it has been waterfilled and then frozen at some point. It almost looks like the damage a garden hose will get if you leave it waterfilled during the winter.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Sun May 28, 2017 11:09 pm

@ Aled

I tried option 2. Did not work out - not enough usable hose coming out of the skeg box.

So now I am going for option 3. I can see that there are more options for "Scigrip methacrylate". There is something called SG5000 and something else called SG300.

I guess the one you were referring to was #2 on this page:
http://www.glueonline.co.uk/acatalog/Ac ... sives.html

(That is the one called "Sci-grip SG5000-06 x 25ml Toughened Methacrylate Adhesive - Natural colour".)

Have I found the correct type?

Aled
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Aled » Mon May 29, 2017 12:30 am

Yes the SG5000-06 is the stuff I've been using lately. The 25ml syringes are a particularly useful size. You can purchase the mixing nozzle to make life easier (they're a single-use accessory, but make life easier if you want to inject accurately), otherwise hand mix by stirring and apply with a suitable stick. Being a methacrylate it will chemically bond to the majority of plastics and as it's self-etching so surface preparation and cleaning is not so important. It will gel in about 5 mins and be hard in 20 mins - so don't hang around. We've found it ideal stuff for bonding 3D printed parts in ABS and also for bonding aluminium (which was surprisingly effective and strong). Although there are the usual health and safety markings, the stuff does not stick to skin, it rubs off easily, but the solvent vapours are quite strong... Actually, it's probably ideal stuff to carry in an emergency repair kit, especially if you have a composite boat.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Tiderace Xplore Classic, replacing the cable hose for the skeg cable?

Post by Allan Olesen » Mon May 29, 2017 8:37 am

Thank you. Very useful explanation. Bought one set for the repair and another one to have in my emergency kit.

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