Glueing hatch rim

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Robert Craig
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Glueing hatch rim

Post by Robert Craig » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:02 pm

Having previously unsucessfully tried to glue a hatch rim, I'm trying to do the job properly.

It's a GRP kayak, and an oval Kayaksport hatch rim, made of ABS.

Kayaksport recommend:
Activator Sika 205
Primer Sika 215
Adhesive Sikaflex 221

This does seem to agree with the recommendations on the Sika website.

Catch is that the activator and primer are inordinately expensive, as they are sold only in quantities far bigger than I need. Something like £55 for the activator + primer + adhesive. Though this would be enough for several dozen hatch rims.

Any ideas for someone local to Glasgow who could do the job, or anywhere selling small quantities?

pathbrae
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by pathbrae » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:55 pm

I've had excellent results with 2 part acrylic adhesives to attach Kajaksport rims to a GRP boat

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/index.ph ... ucts_id=25 (I think I used 3 packs on two oval rims and the day hatch rim when I replaced mine)

Although you probably also need one of these.....

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/index.ph ... ucts_id=22

Still a good bit cheaper than the SIkaflex recommendation
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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Jim
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Jim » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:33 pm

Local chandlers seem to be moving away from Sika because they put expiry dates on the tubes and they don't shift them before they become un-saleable.
Try looking up local boat yards who may use it, or something similar, to see if they will do it for you. I think there is one in Renfrew still otherwise you will need to talk to the various Marinas further down the clyde.
By the time you have done that you could probably have got down to Karitek if they can do it, it's the kind of thing I would expect them to do.

For alternatives, Methacrylate or MS Polymer glues might be suitable.

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MikeB
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:25 pm

I believe Roddy McDowell has had good experiences with the boatyard on Bute fixing serious damage to a f/glass boat. Perhaps they would be able to help with your hatch rim?

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Robert Craig
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Robert Craig » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:30 pm

pathbrae wrote:I've had excellent results with 2 part acrylic adhesives to attach Kajaksport rims to a GRP boat

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/index.ph ... ucts_id=25 (I think I used 3 packs on two oval rims and the day hatch rim when I replaced mine)

Although you probably also need one of these.....

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/index.ph ... ucts_id=22

Still a good bit cheaper than the SIkaflex recommendation

Thanks. How did you prepare the ABS rim before glueing? Just abrasion?

pathbrae
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by pathbrae » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:02 am

A very good rub down - I used a flap wheel on a dremel to get rid of all the old adhesive from the boat (I was fitting new rims to replace old cracked ones) and a good wipe with acetone on the boat and the rim before gluing them.
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Donald Gibson
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Donald Gibson » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:30 pm

You could try Sikaflex- 291 Marine Adhesive Sealant. Just the one product i.e. not activator, primer and adhesive. $20(Australian dollars) from Whitworths Marine - so probably cheap in the UK - certainly much less than the 55 pounds for the three products.

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Robert Craig
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Robert Craig » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:45 am

Thanks.

Sikaflex 291 was what I used for the unsuccessful repair. Its adhesion to the ABS was poor - I was able to pull the rim off with my fingers, and it parted cleanly from the ABS. Stuck like b**ggery to the GRP side, though.

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Robert Craig
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Robert Craig » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:03 pm

Well, it seems to have worked with the Tradeweld Acrylic VT-FS glue.

Image


Image

The glue suffix is FS, which I now realise is Fast Set, so maybe not ideal. The advertised working time is only 5 minutes, so I controlled the temperature very carefully: glue tubes at 10C, air and items to be bonded at about 6C, which gave me more working time - and a good job too, as it took 12 minutes to get all the bolts tightened.

Then a blast with a fan heater to get everything up to a reasonable temperature

One double 50 ml tube was about right

So who else needs to jig and the glue gun?

Thanks to all for their advice.

pathbrae
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by pathbrae » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:21 pm

That's a serious looking jig! :-)
I just dumped a load of weights on top of mine.
I used the SS (slow set) version as I was doing the repair in summer - but it still sets fairly rapidly.
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Chris Bolton
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Chris Bolton » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:35 pm

That's a serious looking jig!
Indeed so. But I'm curious to know why the bolts are so long (or, with hindsight, would you have had them shorter to speed up tightening?)

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Robert Craig
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Robert Craig » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:55 pm

Plan was to have long bolts partly because the lower MDF oval might drop a bit (it's just perched on foam) and because I thought long bolts would be more wobbly and therefore easier to feed through the top holes. Shorter would have been better, as would having an assistant. If I were doing it again I'd look for the SS slow-set variant, which wasn't visible on the website.

Chris Bolton
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Re: Glueing hatch rim

Post by Chris Bolton » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:00 pm

Thanks for the explanation Robert - always worth learning from other people's experience!

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