Newbie... transporting!

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pbb76
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Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:12 pm

Hi all,

Just got my first Kayak today (sit on).

I live right by the coast in Essex (Brightlingsea) and obvious temptation is to dive straight in... literally! But I think I should be sensible and try out in calmer conditions, so I'll be heading to some rivers etc first.

But my first problem, is transporting. I dont have a roof rack, so will obviously need one of those. Can anyone recommend something within a decent budget (certainly no more than £100) and what else I need to go along with a rack please? Do I need special brackets to put the kayak in, is it best to get ratchet straps (and which sort), what to use to tie the front/back down etc.

I'm an absolutely total novice at this sort of thing, so havent got a clue where to begin.

Thank you for any help!!

rockhopper
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by rockhopper » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:41 pm

If it's a sit on top then the easiest way to carry it on a car is just upside down on a set of roof bars. Not much point tying it down bow and stern as i suspect it is not long enough to warrant that.
http://jenniferdawnsmith.com/how-to-str ... tep-plans/

I would avoid using rachet straps as they tend to over clamp things and you run the risk of distorting the shape of the boat. better off just using these sort of things:
https://www.escape-watersports.co.uk/eq ... -5m-detail
these ones are good as they have a rubber protector around the buckle to prevent it scratching your car. Don't forget to check what sort of length of strap you need.

Rog.

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MikeB
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by MikeB » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:04 pm

Get Halfords own brand square section bars, and the appropriate Thule foot / mounting kit.

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:17 pm

MikeB wrote:Get Halfords own brand square section bars, and the appropriate Thule foot / mounting kit.
Thanks, will check that out!

What is the mounting kit?

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:19 pm

rockhopper wrote:If it's a sit on top then the easiest way to carry it on a car is just upside down on a set of roof bars. Not much point tying it down bow and stern as i suspect it is not long enough to warrant that.
http://jenniferdawnsmith.com/how-to-str ... tep-plans/

I would avoid using rachet straps as they tend to over clamp things and you run the risk of distorting the shape of the boat. better off just using these sort of things:
https://www.escape-watersports.co.uk/eq ... -5m-detail
these ones are good as they have a rubber protector around the buckle to prevent it scratching your car. Don't forget to check what sort of length of strap you need.

Rog.
Thank you - I think I have one of those strap things with the kayak. I'll check later!

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MikeB
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by MikeB » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:25 pm

pbb76 wrote:
What is the mounting kit?
The kit to mount the bars to the car. Halfords own stuff is carp - but the Halfords square bars themselves are fine (quite possibly made by Thule) and will fit the appropriate Thule brackets / foot kits. And they are significantly better quality. Avoid the likes of Paddy Hopkirk stuff like the plague.

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:29 pm

MikeB wrote:
pbb76 wrote:
What is the mounting kit?
The kit to mount the bars to the car. Halfords own stuff is carp - but the Halfords square bars themselves are fine (quite possibly made by Thule) and will fit the appropriate Thule brackets / foot kits. And they are significantly better quality. Avoid the likes of Paddy Hopkirk stuff like the plague.
Thank you - so for my reg according to Halfords, something like these;

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/roof-b ... -pack-of-2
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/roof-b ... -pack-of-4
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/roof-b ... -pack-of-4

Which comes to £132

Is that right would you think?

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MikeB
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by MikeB » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:04 pm

Probably, except the Exodus mounts aren't Thule. They look ok though. Pop into your local Halfords and check out what they have, and see what Thule fitting kit will fit with the bars. My personal pref is as noted - I always use the appropriate Thule fitting kit for whatever car I have. As an aside, I'm much less enthusiastic about their J bars incidentally. I don't trust the mounting system connecting them to the cross bars. But as noted, you don't need J bars so I'm going off-topic!

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:45 pm

MikeB wrote:Probably, except the Exodus mounts aren't Thule. They look ok though. Pop into your local Halfords and check out what they have, and see what Thule fitting kit will fit with the bars. My personal pref is as noted - I always use the appropriate Thule fitting kit for whatever car I have. As an aside, I'm much less enthusiastic about their J bars incidentally. I don't trust the mounting system connecting them to the cross bars. But as noted, you don't need J bars so I'm going off-topic!
Ok cool will do, I'm over near a halfords on Saturday.

Why no j bars? Are they for longer sit in canoes then?

pathbrae
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pathbrae » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:17 pm

The "buy it once - buy it right" principle applies very much to roof bars.
It's very easy to think you can save a few pounds, find it's not strong enough / too fiddly / rusts (remember you'll be dribbling salt water over them eventually) and needs to be replaced after a few months. It's best not to skimp but to get the best kit for the job first time. I'd agree that Thule kit is pretty robust. Car makers own parts departments will also sell roof bar kits (often made by Thule but with a Ford / V'hall / VW..... badge on them) which will be guaranteed to fit your model of car - and are often fairly reasonably priced.
Stick with square bars, rather than aero bars, as it will be easier to tie the boat down to them and to attach cradles or j-bars to them later, and they are often a bit stronger as well.
Thule's web-site is pretty good at identifying all the bits you need and putting it together as a kit. (https://www.thule.com/en/gb/roof-rack) The on-line price from folks like this ( https://roofracks.co.uk/Thule-Fit-Guide ... oCfEXw_wcB )is often lower than Halfords etc. as well.
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Rainshine
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by Rainshine » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:49 pm

Have a look at The Roof Box Company online - they carry a huge range of products from lots of different manufacturers so you can compare what is available more easily than just going into the local Halfords. In particular, The Roof Box guys carry a wide range of different styles of canoe and kayak carriers from lots of manufacturers - cheap to expensive brands and probably a wider selection than you'd get in Halfords. They often have bargains on ex-demo or overstocked roof bars, fixing kits, kayak and canoe carriers etc in the bargains section on the website and they offer substantial discounts for these. They are online only so no physical shop but you can speak to them and if whatever you purchase isn't right, you can return it no problem. It'll at least let you see what different kinds of roof systems are out there, get an idea of brands and prices and they also have links to the manufacturers' online 'checkers' which help you identify the correct bits for your specific car.

As others say, if you are looking for an inexpensive option you can just strap your sit on top onto the bars - you might though want to pad the bars first either with special padding made specifically for that purpose or strips of old carpet attached with gaffer tape or sections of the cylindrical foam cladding they sell in B&Q for putting round pipes which is pretty cheap. The straps with the buckles for attaching the boat are pretty cheap to buy and come in lots of lengths - usually the shorter they are, the cheaper. Just make sure the length you buy is long enough - you can cut them shorter if they are too long but if they are too short you are stuck! As far as tying the kayak down at the bow and stern is concerned, there are lots of debates about whether its necessary to do this. If your particular car is small and/or is shaped in such a way that your roof bars have to sit very close together then even with a shorter kayak, you may need to tie it down. You can just use rope for this rather than the special fancy straps they sell for tying boats down. You attach the rope or straps to the end of the kayak and tie it onto the towing eyes in the back and front bumper of your car. My car has a very short roof and the roof bars sit very close together so I have to tie then bow and stern down. If you do tie the bow and stern down, don't pull the straps too tight - you can damage the boat if you do. Tighten them so that there is still a little movement in the ropes and you aren't bending the boat.

The square bars are often cheaper but I can't agree that the areo bars are not as strong or are harder to attach j-bars, cradles and other attachments to. There are plenty of cheap, crappy square bars out there which will certainly not be as strong or last as long as my Thule aerobars! As someone else observed, cheap square bars can start to rust very quickly when salt water is being dripped on them regularly. I've had no difficulty fitting the likes of J-bars and cradles to my aero-bars for my kayaks - I don't use brands that require you to use the T-track. Given that I regularly drive well at high speeds with multiple kayaks on the roof, I can assure you that they are also very strong! My aerobars make no wind noise at all when they are empty and don't increase my fuel consumption so they have other advantages even if they are unsuitable for the person who originally posted due to the price.

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:48 pm

Thanks for the last couple of posts, most helpful again!!

I'll have a look into these :)

rockhopper
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by rockhopper » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:13 pm

Oh, and the reason for not getting j bars is simply the because of their shape, when upside down, sit on kayaks tend to sit fairly flat just on roof bars. As soon as you put them on J Bars they then sit up in the airflow, especially with cross winds. Also, no point spending money on them when you don't need them. I also find it tends to be more faffing around and harder to actually secure a wide sit on top onto J Bars than just flat on roof bars (different for sit in kayaks which tend not to have a flat section on them and need something that is friendlier to their shape).

Rog.

pbb76
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by pbb76 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:18 pm

rockhopper wrote:Oh, and the reason for not getting j bars is simply the because of their shape, when upside down, sit on kayaks tend to sit fairly flat just on roof bars. As soon as you put them on J Bars they then sit up in the airflow, especially with cross winds. Also, no point spending money on them when you don't need them. I also find it tends to be more faffing around and harder to actually secure a wide sit on top onto J Bars than just flat on roof bars (different for sit in kayaks which tend not to have a flat section on them and need something that is friendlier to their shape).

Rog.
Thanks Rog, that makes sense, so I'll definitely not bother with them!

I'm leaning towards insulation tubing on the bars, hopefully giving the dual benefit of protecting the kayak/bars and providing some friction to stop the kayak shifting around.

sunstreaker
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by sunstreaker » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:17 pm

There was a point when I was committed to weekly kayaking and had a car I wasn't going to change for a while so invested in Thule aero bars, to be honest £50 more than Halfords and much better quality as well as reduced wind resistance, so may save some pennies in the long run. Before I committed I used inflatable roofrack for some years which I think you can get for about £50, has its disadvantages but I carried 17 ft canoe and regularly 16ft sea kayak.
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sleepyfolk
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by sleepyfolk » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:03 am

Lomo roof rack pads and straps and pretty good value

Pads: https://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/kaya ... -pads.html

Straps: http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/kayak ... traps.html

When you put the straps on and tighten them, feed the loose end back through the buckle before tying the loose ends off

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MikeB
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Newbie... transporting!

Post by MikeB » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:06 pm

Just adding a little by way of update - having changed my car I had to get new bars, bought Halfords 'Exodus' ones which are identical to Thule square ones, and my Thule mountings fit perfectly.

I'm sure the Exodus equivalents are fine - I prefer to trust Thule mounts.

(But not their j cradles!)

charleston14
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Re: Newbie... transporting!

Post by charleston14 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:52 pm

If you have square bars and roof rails you don't need to buy expensive brackets to make them fit together

I just bought some quality high grade square u bolts of appropriate size, and abut 8-10 mm diameter. then set the square bars upside down on the rails and marked where they needed to be drilled out to take the u bolts through them.

Drill out (a drill press helps), wrap the u bolts in insulation tape / amalgamation tape or heat shrink to protect the roof rails. Thread them up from under the roof rails, through the drilled holes in the spare bars and bolt down with a washer and nyloc nut.
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