Broken Valley Etain Seat

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andyE
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Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by andyE » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:39 pm

HI all, As you can see from the photo my seat has Cracked! It is a hard thermo moulded plastic. Is it possible to repair with Polyester or Epoxy resin and glass tape, stitch and glue style? You experience and opinions much appreciated.

Thanks in advance Andy

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Owen
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Owen » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:46 pm

How old is the seat/kayak and did you buy it new?

Mike A
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Mike A » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:06 pm

Andy, if no luck with the repair / valley letting you have one, there is one for sale on the for sale board.

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andyE
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by andyE » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:24 pm

Hi Owen, It was made , May 2011, I got it new in May 2013 from Desperate Measures Nottingham, Thanks Mike A, I will be calling Valley first thing tomorrow, will look into the one for sale.

Andy

Jonathan.
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Jonathan. » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:44 pm

I broke the seat on my Northshore Atlantic and bought a replacement from Valley who didn't seem surprised to hear of the failure; their seats seem sturdy enough but only until you put your weight on the backstrap when they're hopeless.

A new seat isn't cheap, but the old one did not look to me the kind of thing that's' easily repaired.

Swapping old seat for new is an easy a ten-minute job - providing you have a beefy Phillips screwdriver.
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Northshore Atlantic
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Neil Park
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Neil Park » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:46 pm

The one in my 17.5 broke after 2yrs and I have had the backrest disconnected for most of that time. I think it's more to do with lack of support passing below the seat - when I bought the new one for Valley they offered (and supplied) lots of extra cell foam- obviously too much flex when it's hanging from the hull. I agree they didn't seem surprised when I got in touch and c£40 later it's a quick job to replace.

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lg18
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by lg18 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:49 pm

I've had 2 of these seats break in exactly the same way (2 in 8 years!) in my Valley Pintail - they are shockingly thin brittle plastic, completely rubbish design. The 2nd one that broke I was just paddling along normally, very slow and relaxed, not much pressure at all, and I only weight 56 kg. Valley need to sort themselves out. At the very least they should replace them for free, but of course they don't.

Lucy

kayak1
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by kayak1 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:32 pm

I would be tempted to put the backrest strap Sandwiched in between the seat top edge and underneath the cockpit rim where the seat fixing bolt would run through it..similar to some WW boat backrest fittings..and not directly onto the seat its self...

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Jim
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Jim » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:11 pm

Hard to know what the plastic is, but unlikely that polyester or regular epoxy will do much. West G-flex epoxy might be an option, probably best to assume the plastic is PE or PP and flame treat it first. The thing is, that given the cost of G-flex and the tiny bottles you get, it's probably better to buy a new seat.

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Miamaria
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Miamaria » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:41 pm

That's happened with who of mine. It's obviously made with lack of support under the seat. But also I have seen that an old one have only three holes on each side, while the two of mine which has broken, has five. I think that also might have something to do with it, at least at one of them.

I get a bit angry actually, because it's no wonder they break so easily. Poor design. One of mine only had a thin stripe of foam in front of the seat as support – stupid, short said. Crappy, expensive shit. I intended to try to fix one of mine, but that might be hard, I understand now.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:52 pm

Me too, two Valley seats broke in my Nordkapp LV. I cut an older P&H Quest LV seat to size and have had no bother since.

Douglas

PS getting the seats out of a Norkapp LV is an illegitimate job, I ended up cutting them. Getting a genuine Valley seat back in is almost impossible. You need to warm it up to make it more flexible then put it in sideways then be prepared to lose the skin off your knuckles trying to twist it strasight.

PPS I know two other people with Etains who have had the same problem.

kamala
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by kamala » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:17 pm

Glad it's not just me finding those Valley seats hard to replace.
I've broken two seats in my Nordkapp LV so far, and recently spent nearly three hours of cursing and wrestling to get the latest replacement in. Luckily no cutting or pre-heating was required, just a certain amount of desperation with a lot of nasty scraping and creaking noises.

Valley do seem to have noticed all is not right with their seats - this latest one came with extra metal supports under the bits that keep breaking, and also a much heftier piece of foam running all the way down the centreline of the seat. I suggest putting the foam under the seat before wiggling it into place; trying to fit it underneath later was utterly impossible!

P.S. I've neglected this forum for a while - on catching up I realise I owe Douglas, among others, many thanks for thoughtful replies to an early post of mine. Always worth reading what he has to say!

Rainshine
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Rainshine » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:56 am

Interesting discussion - the seat in my Nordkapp LV came out and then went back in with absolutely no problems at all. Its the original seat and hasn't been taken out before. Mine also seems to have quite a lot of foam underneath. I've gotten rid of the backrest altogether and now just have blocks of outfitting foam in the centre which give my back no support at all - they just give the very base of my spine something to brace against. Its infinitely better - the backrest significantly inhibits torso rotation. I'd never put it back in now.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:57 am

Thank you Kamala :o)

Douglas

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Miamaria
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by Miamaria » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:27 pm

One odd thing I came to think of - on the newes seat, the one with lots of foam under (the one that I can't get out of the Nordkapp LV), one screw just makes it way out. It happened once on the old one, but I replaced it and it did not happen again. But with this, one screw just keeps making it's way out. I have to tighten it repeatedly, and now it has almost escaped again. Strange. But I take it as a sign that there is some movement in the whole seat while using the kayak?

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:02 pm

I would use a low strength thread-locker, such as Loctite 222:

http://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/loctite-22 ... oCc6Xw_wcB

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... 2&_sacat=0

This secures threaded components, but they are still removable.
Nick.

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asmar
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by asmar » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:23 pm

From a fleet of 30 Valley boats I had during the first 2 years 8 broken seats. This is an ongoing problem, seat is very poorly design, need to be reinforced a lot on both sides as all are breaking there.

Other than that, it is a very relaxing seat!

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andyE
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by andyE » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:36 pm

Thanks all for the replies, I've have been off grid, New ISP!

It would seem that lack of the foam support under the seat pan is a major contributing factor to the seat cracking, (worthy of a regular inspection) that and a modestly proportioned paddler on top. A new seat pan is £45, new seat compleat is over £100 + P&P. So as a cost saving exercise I'm just going to stitch it back together for the time being with copper wire and new 6mm sticky black foam under the pan.

The only problem I have experienced with the seat, was when I moved the seat pan forwards to alter the weight distribution. Re fitting the bolts was a real pain. I have long fingers , even I had difficulty in holding the threaded plate in position to screw the 4 bolts back in place, TOP TIP, use double sided tape to stick the plates in place on the underside of the seat pan, and a longer bolt to help draw the seat to the boat together, a lot less fiddly.

I'll post a photo of my sewing when done.

Andy

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JMarkW
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by JMarkW » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:29 pm

When you fix it try drilling a small hole at the end of the crack to help terminate it and stop it propagating more.

Could also try a Methacrylate adhesive as opposed to a normal epoxy to glue it as well.

This helped when I broke my Ndk seat in my Explorer.

Cheers
Mark

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andyE
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Re: Broken Valley Etain Seat

Post by andyE » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:22 pm

It has taken a while to get round to it but managed to repair the seat Today. I have stitched it back together with 2.5mm copper Socket cable drilling 3.5mm hole either side of the crack. I have also replaced the two 6 mm foam pads under the seat pan that gives some support & refitted the other foam blocks that had come astray, possibly the main reason the why seat cracked in the first place. I did consider using some kind of epoxy too, however being an ultra orthodox Yorkshire man, I figured to much of an expense if this approach failed and I would have just end up buying a new seat pan, so save myself a few quid into the bargain.

Re fitting the seat was a breeze with the aid of double sided sticky tape and a long draw bolt, less than 10 minutes and that is not an exaggeration. It takes my weight and there was no creaking or cracking so hopefully jobs a goodun.

It's a bittersweet result! as I have decided to quit paddling due to Injuries sustained as a result of my Army service. Sitting down for long periods has become painful even driving for long periods is not much fun, and sitting in a Kayak can be excruciating, You can not get out and have a rest and walk about in the same way as you can when cycle touring, and I defy Gordon Brown to walk on water! Hopefully my repair and the seat refitting technique will help someone, it will certainly make seat adjustments simpler.

Cheers all Andy.

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