Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

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Ian_Montrose
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Ian_Montrose » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:35 am

I'm always rather wary of supposedly waterproof items that don't have a specified depth, pressure or IPX rating, especially in a marine environment. It will be interesting to hear how long the Zen switch lasts, my money would be on not very long but I hope I'm wrong. I went for a remote control switch in my previous kayak but went off it rather quickly. The constant current drain was a PITA as I had to recharge the battery frequently thus added faff and wear and tear on the connectors. The key fob presented additional failure possibilities as well. For my current kayak, I went with the air switch and it has been in situ without issue since March 2012. I test it every trip and it's never failed. For anyone interested, I used the following two components:

http://cpc.farnell.com/herga/6448-00/ac ... nsku=false

and

http://cpc.farnell.com/herga/6871-ac/sw ... nsku=false

I routed the wires and air tube through the bulkhead to the day hatch using waterproof cable glands like these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-12mm-comp ... xy88lRX~RJ

One of the benefits of using these glands is that if you ever need to adjust or remove the wires/air tube it's just a 2 second job - just unscrew a couple of turns, adjust/replace wire, screw gland to tighten back up. My cockpit has been flooded many, many times and the glands have never let a drop of water through to the day hatch.

I housed my battery (1.2mAh SLA) in a cheap clip-it style airtight food box, again using glands to feed through the wires and air tube. Much cheaper than an otter box/ peli case and quite sufficient unless you are prone to flooding your day hatch.

Daker
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:58 pm

Ian,
That switch in your link above appears to be a 240V version so does it still work with a 12V battery connection ?
In my initial searches they all seem to be mains rated rather than DC.

Thanks.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:11 pm

I use almost identical switches to Ian and they work just fine with 12V. The only difference is that mine use a narrower bore air tube, because they were what was available at the time.

Douglas

Ian_Montrose
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Ian_Montrose » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:30 pm

Daker wrote:Ian,
That switch in your link above appears to be a 240V version so does it still work with a 12V battery connection ?
In my initial searches they all seem to be mains rated rather than DC.

Thanks.
Hi

Yes, it's the exact one I have - still have the receipt with part number. I'm not an electrician but my understanding is using a switch with a higher voltage rating than the power supply is generally not an issue, it's the other way around that things tend to go pop.

Ian

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:34 pm

Great, thanks guys.
I guessed as much but figured it was worth asking.

kayakbiker
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by kayakbiker » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:00 pm

Daker, Sleepfolk. Have you guys made any decisions on locating a bilge discharge yet?
I think there may just be enough room for a point next to the grooved hand grips at the rear of cockpit if using a short bit of hose
I am concerned about blow back into cockpit but maybe if skin can be slightly angled to rear it may be OK. What do you think.

sleepyfolk
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:23 pm

Wondered about that myself and thought I'd go out the back hatch but Douglas reckons it's a bad idea so I've yet to dry run my parts and see if it will work, the discharge fitting I've got has a non return rubber flap on it that will direct the water at a slight angle, I have since discovered you can get 45 degree discharge fittings for jet skis which may well fit in that little spot you're talking about.
There's one here, this one's probably a bit big but you get the idea, there are loads of others if you do a search, the 45 degree angle would stop the water falling back in, it was also pointed out that if you get your spray deck on quick enough it won't matter but I agree with you - better to direct the flow in the first place.

Someone will say that the angle will restrict the flow but 45 isn't as bad as as a 90 degree fitting! Lol

http://www.ncjetski.co.uk/acatalog/HOT- ... ml#SID=385

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:04 am

I haven't started my Delphin pump yet as Im fixing the one in my NDK Explorer first. (Activities delayed due to strong wind at the weekend - Douglas will understand - and surf this coming week !)

Anyway, on my Delphin the obvious place for the outlet of RIGHT where the ridges are, behind the cockpit so my intention is to just (carefully) grind / file those off at the appropriate point. Of course you could just mount the outlet atop the ridges + fill the gap with your preferred goo, swings and roundabouts really.

I think the concerns about the outlet being close to the cockpit are unfounded as you will have your spraydeck on anyway and the pump will be displacing a LOT less water than any wave breaking over the boat so none should get back in. And having it angled may arguably offer a small benefit but Id rather have a flush fitting than something protruding at that point.

The pump I have in my Explorer is an Atwood V500 which will be a very snug fit behind the seat on the Delphin but will definitely go in, although I suspect the Atwood is a little bit slimmer so may be an easier fit.

One thing I hadn't realised when folk are worrying about passing cables / tubes through the foam bulkhead - mine already has a bungee cord attached to the hatch covers there, as it was delivered from the factory ! So any additional, well sealed holes are unlikely to be an issue.

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by kayakbiker » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:07 pm

Thanks both of you for your feedback. I've been kayaking for around 8 months now so unfortunately at the moment my roll fails about 25% of the time so I'm just wet exiting pulling out the hose and switching on the pump,empty my kayak before I do cowboy re-entry. This works quite well for me although trying to find the switch is a bit of a pain due to its small size and the fact I struggle to find a good location for putting it. This is all good and we'll on flat water but like others have said when in bigger water I don't want to faff about so will be looking at the air switches that have been discussed.
I'm putting off drilling for now but the 45 degree connector is a good option especially if there are any issues with the flush connector and as long as I can get the hang of the roll re-entry. A good idea about drilling and sanding the grooved area by the way. I
Also agree about the hole in the bulkhead for the cover. I didn't realise there was the hole for the skeg cable too until I had a good look the other day. No wonder I'm still getting water in that hatch despite sealing the hatch cover hole. I also seem to have a bit of a leak around the skeg box too where the bolt goes through. Need to use some sealant on both areas I think
For the time being i will just use my waterproof box until I resolve my other leaky holes.
Thanks again

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:15 am

In the interests of nosyness I was going to post some photos when I'd finished so I'll just have a go at uploading an image of my battery box as it seems fiendishly difficult to post a photo and get it to appear in the post rather than a link, so here goes.

seems to be taking forever to fit this bilge pump - I must stop working and concentrate on the important stuff!

Image

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:16 am

It worked - woohoo!

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:55 pm

Well that's certainly a far more expert looking set up than mine, which is a basic clip-lock 'Tupperware' style box, well done.
I was wondering why you had gone to the bother of the meter and socket until I saw your comment on another post - it all makes sense now ! :-)

"Exactly why I decided on a Yuasa rec 10 deep cycle battery, plenty of capacity and I can charge the VHF, GPS, or iPhone without killing it."

sleepyfolk
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:09 pm

Don't matter what it looks like as long as it empties the boat!
Thought it would be interesting if everyone put a few pics of their installs on when they've done

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by kayakbiker » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:01 pm

As others had warned me after 6 or 7 outings in fresh water and one in sea my switch has started to fail. My pump started operating in the off position during my last trip to Arisaig. Still, it was worth trying and at least it went when I was with a group of fellow kayakers so no big deal

Im now going to go with the advice provided and try the air switch as I do want a safer solution. I am however wondering where to locate the Air button and how best to secure to the kayak. Have others drilled holes in the top of their kayaks for the button to be located on the top deck. What is the best way to secure air line when routing through cockpit based on the fact I have a plastic kayak
Thanks again for any pointers/guidance.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:15 pm

My friend drilled a hole in the deck just behind the cockpit on the opposite side to the pump outlet. His air switch control is a button which sits flush with its mounting and is depressed within the mounting. On two boats I have I have used a surface mount larger circular operating pad. on one boat I have mounted it on the rear bulkhead inside the cockpit. On the other I have mounted it on the inside of the hull near my knee. In the first boat I switch it on when I am out the boat and before I renter roll. Not too bothered about switching it off.

Douglas

sleepyfolk
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:36 am

If you're needing to seal components of your new switch arrangement consider these:

1. Sugru - mouldable and salt water proof - available at screwfix etc

https://sugru.com

2. Raytech Magic gel, I'll post a photo below, it's basically a non conductive dielectric gel that IP68 seals your components. I will have a pratley junction box on the back bulkhead with the connections sealed in this gel, if the actual on/off/auto switch is itself waterproof as advertised then none of my connections will be exposed to the salt air at all. That's the theory anyway!

http://www.raytech.it/product/low-volta ... el?lang=en

Image

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Erling
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Erling » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:42 am

There are many different ways to switch the pump on, obviously. Air switches, reed switches, automatic pumps etc. have been covered in this and other threads. Personally I wanted something solid state and absolutely waterproof and ended up with the Water Witch Model 101 that triggers my Rule pump automatically.
https://waterwitchinc.com/bilge-switches/
https://www.amazon.com/Water-Witch-Elec ... B00CMWLHX8

I mounted it on the outlet hose, something like this but with the sensor pointing downwards (sitting at the lowest point). Works every time.

Image
The older I get, the better I used to be.

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Robert Craig
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Robert Craig » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:48 pm

PhilAyr wrote:Kayakbiker,

go for an ...... magnetic switch .....

Phil
I liked the idea of a magnetic switch until I tried the magnet near my compass!

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Ian_Montrose » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:14 pm

kayakbiker wrote:As others had warned me after 6 or 7 outings in fresh water and one in sea my switch has started to fail. My pump started operating in the off position during my last trip to Arisaig. Still, it was worth trying and at least it went when I was with a group of fellow kayakers so no big deal

Im now going to go with the advice provided and try the air switch as I do want a safer solution. I am however wondering where to locate the Air button and how best to secure to the kayak. Have others drilled holes in the top of their kayaks for the button to be located on the top deck. What is the best way to secure air line when routing through cockpit based on the fact I have a plastic kayak
Thanks again for any pointers/guidance.
I put the air "button" just in front of my seat, I didn't really want it on the outside of my boat as that carries a risk of accidental activation and I didn't see any major advantage in it being externally located. I've never had any problem with it being where it is and can activate it easily either seated in the boat or in the water. I attached it with velcro in case I decided to relocate it but have never felt the need to do so. The airline just goes under the seat and through the bulkhead to the day hatch where the battery and switch actuator are located.

sleepyfolk
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:30 pm

Well it's taken a bit longer than I thought but it's in at last!

Image

Image

For some reason this photo makes it all look wonky, it's not! Put a couple of shaped foam bits in, hopefully to stop the battery box from waggling around if the strap comes loose whilst I'm pirouetting unceremoniously upside down in the surf!

Image

Discharge in the rear lid:

Image

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PhilAyr
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by PhilAyr » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:13 pm

Hi Sleepy,

Congratulations ! It does look like a very neat job. However I am intrigued with the bilge discharge in the rear hatch cover. How well does that work ? I assume it was done to avoid drilling a hole in to the deck .

Regards,

Phil

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:17 pm

It was a bit tight and close to the cockpit coaming (and it's where my hand pump lives) to go straight up so I decided to go through the bulkhead with the discharge pipe, I may drill a hole yet and put the discharge through the deck but as I don't keep anything much in the rear hatch I just thought I'd go through there for now, I was avoiding drilling a hole but for no really good reason! I just thought if it all went pear shaped it was easy to buy a new hatch. I'm thinking of getting a KCS exped trolley so I might need the extra room soon.
Maybe I should have had a bit more confidence, it empties the boat out pretty quick, it's a supersub 1100.

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by kayakbiker » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:18 pm

Sleepyfolk
Just to say your setup looks brilliant. A very professional
job. In fact it looks like it was done at the factory. Well done. I'm guessing you spent some time researching and sourcing your parts
Have you had plenty of opportunity to test it the last few weeks.

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by sleepyfolk » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:13 pm

Yep, I was surfing (surfing upside down mainly) at praa sands last week and so far it's done a fair few pump outs without any problems

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by blueythe » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:07 pm

Did anyone come up with a neat solution to fitting the outlet on the ribbed section of the delphin just behind the cockpit?

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:54 pm

A wee update from me on the air switch that I fitted to my NDK Explorer (still haven't got round to doing the Delphin as its not getting used much at present).

My recommendation is NOT to buy the cheapest, plastic switch button !
It worked very well until getting a bit of sand down the side of the button, at first causing it to be a bit temperamental, then seizing completely. :-(

Don't know if a quality stainless one would have faired better but I will no doubt find out shortly, now I have an air-switch sized hole to refill.

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Allan Olesen » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:14 pm

Daker wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:54 pm
A wee update from me on the air switch that I fitted to my NDK Explorer (still haven't got round to doing the Delphin as its not getting used much at present).

My recommendation is NOT to buy the cheapest, plastic switch button !
It worked very well until getting a bit of sand down the side of the button, at first causing it to be a bit temperamental, then seizing completely. :-(

Don't know if a quality stainless one would have faired better but I will no doubt find out shortly, now I have an air-switch sized hole to refill.
I have made my own waterproof switch. I used this:
  • A cheap push button switch for a car, made to fit a hole with 12 mm diameter
  • A short piece of plastic pipe with internal diameter 12 mm and external diameter 20 mm
  • A semi heavy nitrile glove (this was actually the most expensive part)
  • Some sealing compound
First I soldered the cable to the switch and pulled the cable through the pipe. Then I "glued" the switch into the pipe with the sealing compound and sealed around the cable. Then I cut one finger off the rubber glove, put pipe and switch into the finger, sealed with more sealing compound and then wound a piece of string several times around the open end of the finger and the cable.

I haven't come around to finding a good position for the switch, so it just lies on the floor of the kayak in front of the seat, soaked in salt water. When I want to turn on the pump, I open my spraydeck and push the switch. It has been this way for 6 months and I have had no problems yet.

Photo here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6WeYk ... sp=sharing

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norb
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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by norb » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:10 pm

Cockpit in Delphin is really small, you should be able emptying your boat by yourself with cheap standard hand operated bilge pump.
coast about 30 £. I don't want to be rude but anything more than this we called w..... machine
And sponge :)
All the best
Norbert

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Irish Sea » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:57 am

I suppose the main difference between hand operated bilge pumps and electric ones is that with the electric ones you can keep both hands on the paddle and keep moving/bracing while with the handpumps you can't. That, and having to open your spraydeck at least somewhat makes the use of handpumps in bigger conditions and especially when solo paddling not very practical. I see a big bonus for the electrical system there. And of course you can and should still bring a handpump as a backup in case the electric one acts up...

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Re: Fitting Bilge Pump to Delphin 155

Post by Daker » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:12 pm

norb wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:10 pm
I don't want to be rude but - - - -
Really ?

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