Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
User avatar
TimL@Pyranha
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:13 pm
Location: Runcorn
Contact:

Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by TimL@Pyranha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:17 pm

Following recent discussions, Pyranha have decided that it’s no longer possible to continue to supply the Brookbank group and have removed all Pyranha, P&H, Venture and Feel Free products from the stores.

We understand that many of you will have ordered our products through Brookbank and may have been waiting some time for them. In the majority of cases we believe your orders are with us ready for despatch and have been for some time, though we have no way of contacting you.

If you have ordered our products through Brookbank and are waiting for them then please contact us to discuss your order as we are very keen to get these products out to you. We will do whatever we can to get orders to you and ensure you do not suffer financially.

Finally we would like to make clear that we hold the Brookbank staff in the very highest regard and that this decision should not be held as a reflection on them.

If you would like to contact us please call Pyranha on 01928 716666 , option 1 for Sales. Ask to speak with the UK Sales Team Ref: Brookbank.
Tim
Pyranha
Runcorn

crashnodrog
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by crashnodrog » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:32 pm

Curious. Speculation? Gossip? Fact ?

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8057
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:47 pm

Hmmm. 30% discounts now available - http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... 34&t=97218

NathanE
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by NathanE » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:02 pm

You think Brookbank is in need of cash in a hurry? May be wise not to buy gift tokens for Christmas?

Hmm.

Sad if this is the reason for Pyranha backing off.

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by ruralweb » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:59 pm

Just heard that Brookbanks Lancaster has closed down.
Mal

No Kayak
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by No Kayak » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:30 pm

There have been rumours of cashflow troubles at Brookbank for the past 3 or 4 years. It's always hard to tell whether they're malicious gossip or genuine news from exasperated suppliers.

That P&H are offering to supply the boats to clients directly suggests they're not worried about repercussions from Brookbank. They have either reached an agreement, or Brookbank were not in a position to purchase the ordered boats.Read into that what you will. I just hope no customers who've placed deposits for custom boats end up losing out financially.

The upside of retailers like Brookbank is their ability to raise the profile of paddling and to carry stock at pricing advatageous to the consumer. The downside was that for specialist items such as sea kayaks, the offer was too much towards being pricing led end at the expense of providing paddlers with expertise.

If, and it's a big if, Brookbank were to exit the sea kayak market, it would certainly be a fillip for the small number of dedicated and specialist retailers who have suffered at their hands over the past few years and, ultimately, be better for consumers hunting quality of service..

User avatar
Mark R
Posts: 24131
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:17 pm
Location: Dorset
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by Mark R » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:49 pm

No Kayak wrote:malicious gossip ... dedicated and specialist retailers who have suffered at their hands...
No Kayak, I'm not known for my empathy, yet I actually predicted that you'd reappear for this thread, and I even accurately guessed what your 'positive' contribution would be.

You're in danger of becoming a parody of yourself. Maybe post about 'kayaking' now and again, you might even find it more interesting than bitching about former rivals within the industry.
Mark Rainsley
FACEBOOK

No Kayak
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by No Kayak » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:19 pm

It would be a welcome and constructive move if you for once commented in some way on the point being made, rather than the person making it, Mark.

Knoydart didn't survive because there was no margin left to support the business if it was forced to compete with businesses such as Brookbank on price. Brookbank appears to have difficulty surviving by having price as its main USP. The result of either ceasing is that paddlers have less choice, which I think is a bad thing.

The lesson I would learn, in specialist markets, is that retailing (and purchasing) should not be primarily price driven. Specialist paddling retail should have margin built-in to support the advice and support it needs. Tins of beans don't need knowledgable staff to sell, £2500 kayaks should.

andy i
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:29 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by andy i » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:10 pm

I have in the last 6 months started working for a national sports equipment distributor ( not kayaking ).
Simply speaking we ask all our retailers to do NO online discounts at all. This is something that they all stick to.
In store discounts are one thing, but if there are no online discounts then it puts the stores on a much more even footing.
So customers service is more important than price point.
Maybe this should be an approach that the kayaking world should consider!

This is not a comment on Brook Bank, just an observation from a different angle.

damppaddler
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:41 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by damppaddler » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:34 pm

andy i wrote:I have in the last 6 months started working for a national sports equipment distributor ( not kayaking ).
Simply speaking we ask all our retailers to do NO online discounts at all. This is something that they all stick to.
In store discounts are one thing, but if there are no online discounts then it puts the stores on a much more even footing.
So customers service is more important than price point.
Maybe this should be an approach that the kayaking world should consider!

This is not a comment on Brook Bank, just an observation from a different angle.

Isn't that illegal price fixing?

andy i
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:29 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by andy i » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:01 pm

How can asking stores to stick to the RRP when advertising on line be illegal price fixing?
What it does stop is people trying things on in shops and then hunting around for online discount.

NathanE
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by NathanE » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:19 pm

I have sensed for a while that there is tension caused by Brookbank as a big player in a specialist market. As a newcomer to the sport I have to say that a shop that can offer a wide range of varied stock makes it much easier to get started and make informed buying decisions. Add to that the fact that they had a fleet of test boats at Lee Valley and it means that you could give gear a proper try out rather than just paddling on a canal or marina for 10 minutes.

If as a community, paddlers want to keep specialist retailers going they have to vote with their wallets and spend the extra cash with them. The sad reality however, is that in most (not all) cases, we allow individual motivation to overcome the group good by seeking the best possible price for gear for ourselves. For example, with an offer of 30% of new boat prices would anyone who knew what they wanted seriously go to a retailer round the corner and pay full MRP?

As another point, there's another thread going about esoteric boat manufacturers, I think that it's only with bigger volume retail that it will ever make any sense for anyone to carry stock, let alone a demo fleet, of less common boats, so I do think that it's a bit of a shame that they couldn't make it work out (if that is the case).

Ho hum, I wish the staff all the best and hope that something good, other than a 30% discount ;) can come of it.

damppaddler
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:41 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by damppaddler » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:26 pm

andy i wrote:How can asking stores to stick to the RRP when advertising on line be illegal price fixing?
What it does stop is people trying things on in shops and then hunting around for online discount.
The definition of price fixing according to Wikipedia:

"Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price"

Mike A
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:22 pm
Location: In me boat
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by Mike A » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:56 pm

Sadly it also appears that Paddleworks is soon going to be closing its shop at Llangollen - its hard times out there.

Thankfully it appears that they will be staying open online - best of luck to them in the new venture.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8057
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:07 pm

You can have price - or service. I had excellent service from Knoydart in days gone by. I'm afraid I can't say the same of B/bank.

All that said, the banks just aren't lending so overdrafts aren't happening. Which can't be having a good impact on business. As they have been told to lend, and have been taking money to do so as a highly competitive rate, if businesses are failing, the answer is fairly obvious.

Mike

User avatar
Mark R
Posts: 24131
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:17 pm
Location: Dorset
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by Mark R » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:19 pm

Kicking someone when they are down is distasteful.
Mark Rainsley
FACEBOOK

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by ruralweb » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:51 am

I've bought almost all my kit from Brookbanks at Carlisle and Lancaster and the level of service was first class so it's sad to hear that they may be having problems.
Mal

User avatar
snapper
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by snapper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:56 am

I guess this migth address some of the speculation.

http://www.canoe-shops.co.uk/shops/nort ... canoes.htm
Chatham 17-Scupper Pro-RRRapido
2011 Launches 102

NathanE
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by NathanE » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:49 am

ruralweb wrote:I've bought almost all my kit from Brookbanks at Carlisle and Lancaster and the level of service was first class so it's sad to hear that they may be having problems.
Their stock range isn't quite the same, but the folks at Windermere Canoe and Kayak just down by the ferry are really helpful if you're in need of a local (ish) alternative and can stand the traffic!

User avatar
kayak kaos
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:16 am
Location: Peak District
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by kayak kaos » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:56 am

Mark R wrote:Kicking someone when they are down is distasteful.
Well said!
It's tough times in many industries and the outdoor industry has to cope with the weather on top of the economy.
Cheers for now,
Colin.

MattB
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:57 pm

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by MattB » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:17 am

Knoydart didn't survive because there was no margin left to support the business if it was forced to compete with businesses such as Brookbank on price. Brookbank appears to have difficulty surviving by having price as its main USP. The result of either ceasing is that paddlers have less choice, which I think is a bad thing.
I thought Knoydart still existed as a sole Tiderace dealer? If Knoydart haven't survived I suspect it was because they were miserable sods and not that helpful, probaly nothing to do with the price!! They were also selling top end kokatat etc oppose to Brookbanks Palm etc.

Either way, its sad to see a paddle shop go down, (if it has!!)

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8057
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by MikeB » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:26 am

MattB wrote:

I thought Knoydart still existed as a sole Tiderace dealer? If Knoydart haven't survived I suspect it was because they were miserable sods and not that helpful, probaly nothing to do with the price!! They were also selling top end kokatat etc oppose to Brookbanks Palm etc.

Either way, its sad to see a paddle shop go down, (if it has!!)
Quite. As I said - "IF". Sadly, the rather excellent Stirling Canoes is closing. They are going to run as a mail order business. Not much margin in paddlesport, and when competing against the big boys - - - -

Knoydart does still exist, but I think you'll find that all they do these days is Tiderace and I think that's more as the wholesaler. I had excellent service from them in days gone by, but they certainly had a specific focus on where they wanted to trade.

User avatar
TechnoEngineer
Posts: 3351
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: Berks, Hants, Essex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:32 am

No Kayak wrote:The lesson I would learn, in specialist markets, is that retailing (and purchasing) should not be primarily price driven.
I'd say that actually applies to *any* market. If the USP of all suppliers in a marketplace is "we're the cheapest" then the whole thing becomes a race to the bottom, where everyone loses.

BTW I thought that the chaps at Knoydart were very helpful indeed.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by ruralweb » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:39 am

Correction - that applies to *any* market. If the USP of all suppliers in a marketplace is "we're the cheapest" then the whole thing becomes a race to the bottom, where everyone loses.
unfortunately that's the name of the game these days - everyone has been brainwashed by the supermarkets etc into special offers and discounts. It's at the point now where many people will not buy anything unless its on offer or they get a discount. Many wholesalers/manufacturers are now realising that the only way to make on a sale is to sell direct and cut out the middleman.
Mal

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by ruralweb » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:44 am

Their stock range isn't quite the same, but the folks at Windermere Canoe and Kayak just down by the ferry are really helpful if you're in need of a local (ish) alternative and can stand the traffic!
yep I call in there when I'm paddling on Winderemere. The best thing is you can paddle to the shop door and they always have the kettle on! The summer solstice race they organise on the Lake is very good.
Mal

NathanE
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by NathanE » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:21 pm

ruralweb wrote: The best thing is you can paddle to the shop door and they always have the kettle on!
That's the best way to beat the ferry queue!

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13858
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by Jim » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm

MikeB wrote:
Sadly, the rather excellent Stirling Canoes is closing. They are going to run as a mail order business. Not much margin in paddlesport, and when competing against the big boys - - - -
I hadn't heard that, every time I speak to Dave he seems to be fully booked on the coaching side of the business, I hadn't realised the shop was in jeopardy but I can't say I'm surprised in the current economic climate. Which reminds me I ought to speak to him about some specialised canoe tuition....

It must be frustrating for small businesses who are being shafted by the banks as a result of the banks own greedy stupidity. Actually I know it is because I work for a small business and know how much hassle my boss gets from the bank even though we have more work lined up than we can handle just now - the delay in cash flow is a big problem.

User avatar
bobt
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:06 am
Location: Canada

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by bobt » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:51 am

Jim wrote: the delay in cash flow is a big problem.

In any business, cash is king. Lack of cash will take someone out of business qicker than anything else. If the bank is sqeaking then the business is probably leveraged to the max and the ratios don't look so good.

ruralweb
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Brookbank and Pyranha Mouldings Limited

Post by ruralweb » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:35 pm

Brookbanks Carlisle has just closed its doors!!!!!
Mal

User avatar
Robert Craig
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Knoydart - flare tubes

Post by Robert Craig » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:08 pm

No Kayak wrote: ...Knoydart didn't survive .....
They're still in business, but just selling boats, not all the rest of it.

I'm (or was) the maker of the often-maligned flare tubes for Knoydart. I don't suppose I'll be selling them many more.

Anyone up for buying from me the design rights? Basically a couple of specifications, parts lists and where-to-buy, and some very simple minded pressure test equipment.

Don't see how to make it a sensible mail order business, because it costs so much to send stuff.

But does anyone feel like making me an offer?

Post Reply