SOT versus SINK

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Chris329a
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SOT versus SINK

Post by Chris329a » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:11 pm

Hi Guys,

I currently have an Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro SOT which I use for fishing but also love my paddling. I often go for 10, 20 and have even done a 30 mile trip recently from Warsash to Keyhaven and back again in 8hrs ( in practice to see whether I could do round the Isle of Wight )

Do you guys go out on your own in a touring SINK much, because I virtually always go out during the week on my own? I am fully kitted out, fully aware of safety etc and have been doing this a while so wondered how much more dangerous it would be compared to a SOT?

I have a budget of around £500 so also wondered if this is an unrealistic amount of money to get a second hand touring kayak?

I have considered just buying a really nice carbon paddle (currently only use a Carlisle Simply Magic paddle) for those longer trips so that I still have my safety margin of being able to get straight back on the yak should I happen to fall off (which hasn't happened in years through really rough weather) but am not sure how much more efficient this would make my trips considering maximum hull speed etc.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Cheers, Chris

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:07 pm

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by tannys » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:11 pm

£500 will get you a pretty decent second hand boat depending on what your after,

A lot of people like - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dagger-Charls ... 4cfd430193 and that's just over budget new

I got one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Perception-Ca ... 3f12debc4a for under £400 used

Lots of other tourers about if you are wanting a 14 footer

For me I feel safer in a sit in
"Paddle solo, sleep tandem"

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:15 pm

If you get something like a Charleston, it would be a good idea to fit decklines to it for sea use.
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Chris329a
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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by Chris329a » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:55 am

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciated. I'm reading up on everything and am trying to get a feel of which brands are most popular but like all sports there are so many differing opinions as expected.

I think that I'll have to wait for one to appear in the next few months and get some training.

So back to my original question, do many of you go out on your own? All I ever see is people in groups?

This year I'll paddle round the Isle of Wight and will almost probably do it on my own. Are there any more inherent risks doing this in a SINK compared with a SOT once you have learned to either roll or get back in? I suppose having only fallen off once (and that was my fault with a snagged anchor!) in hundreds of miles, that is my answer?

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by dpround » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:09 am

I started out with SOT and then moved to SINKs. (I have a OC Prowler elite and SKUK Explorer HV.) Going out on your own in a SINK is a serious undertaking, not only must you be certain of your ability to do a re-enter and roll (not just roll), but you will also need a reliable pump system that will operate while paddling. To give you an example, I am considering going round Llyn Padarn solo for exercise later this week and even then I am nervous about crossing the lake in the sea kayak. I have a pretty solid roll RHS and a fair roll LHS (CTC ish), can confidently do re-enter and roll in a pool and have some of the safety kit. I may still take the SOT though.

The stability of a SINK sea kayak will be a shock after a SOT, especially a lively one like the SKUK Explorer. The Primary stability of most SOTs is vast, but secondary almost non-existent, whereas the primary stability of a SINK like the Explorer is small, but there is a fair bit of secondary. The trouble I found is that I start to get worried far too soon in the SINK, trying to keep it within the stability angle of a SOT, and so am far too uptight for effective paddling.

If you want to go solo, you might be better spending your money on getting your safety gear up to scratch and possibly a decent paddle:

VHF
Flares
PLB
GPS
compass
charts/map
spare paddle
pump (even SOTs flood)
tow line
throw line
first aid kit
repair kit
etc

There are plenty of well thought out lists on the web.

Alternatively, get the SINK and join a club. Your skills will improve no end and you will get to go to places you should never try solo. This is the route I have taken and recommend most strongly.

All the best

David

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by Chris329a » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:44 am

Thanks David,

At the moment I do all my long journeys solo anyway, and with the exception of an EPIRB I have all the other safety kit anyway so wouldn't need to spend anything on that.

The first part of your question explained a lot that I was after, so I am curious to see how others made the cross over, and how they found it etc?

I also suppose that I don't see many solo kayakers due to safety like any sport really, but wondered if I was missing something, as I wouldn't want to go out much in a group.

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by tannys » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:41 pm

I paddle solo but try my best (much as it annoys me sometimes) to keep within my comfort zone. My comfort zone is probably more mind over matter but I love paddling on my own.

I have 3 mobiles (of different networks) that I always go out with, 2 of which are just cheapies bought for that purpose along with most of the other safety equipment
"Paddle solo, sleep tandem"

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by MYSSAK » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:19 pm

Chris329a wrote:So back to my original question, do many of you go out on your own? All I ever see is people in groups?

This year I'll paddle round the Isle of Wight and will almost probably do it on my own. Are there any more inherent risks doing this in a SINK compared with a SOT once you have learned to either roll or get back in? I suppose having only fallen off once (and that was my fault with a snagged anchor!) in hundreds of miles, that is my answer?
http://sixknots.net/2011/06/23/non-stop ... -of-wight/

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by snapper » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:12 pm

Chris, you're lucky in that you have a scupper - it's the closest to a SINK out of them. That said it's still a different beast. I went from mine straight into the Chatham and though I felt fine on fresh water and a flattish sea I got nervous at one point in reverse swelland had to hang onto westie for a bit - I tensed up and without the inherent stability of the scupper I was in danger of tipping. Now, it's not because it's less stable but because it's very different, feels different, handles differently. You've seen what I've been up to with it lately and that's after not paddling her since the spring because i've been fishing.

If you can handle a phone better than you can handle a VHF (!) give me a bell and we can natter; we come from the same song sheet.

ps I bought my PLB finally because I'd moved to a SINK.
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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by The Shiner » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:52 pm

Chris.
When my back is better I'll give you a buzz and see what days we are both free.
I should be able to hire a club boat (probably an Aquanaut?).
Then we can go and see how you get on and generally just mess about.

And as for "SOT versus SINK", for me, since making the transition to a "sit in", I would say "sit in" everytime.
And as Mark said, the Scupper is pretty close in handling and performance, and is a brilliant fishing platform!
But I'm afraid I am a convert now.
I will still be kayak fishing, but it will be from my Chatham (which should be interesting, lol).
And any meets I attend this year will be fished from that.

Rich

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by Chris329a » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:17 am

Cheers guys, just the sort of thing I wanted to hear - I suppose that these days the fishing is starting to take second place and my mind wanders off thinking about paddling.....If there were more fish then I'd be more interested, but sitting there in the depths of winter freezing, and looking over to the Island is very distracting. There have been a few occasions when I have just upped anchor and paddled over to Cowes for lunch!

I suppose I just need to try as many as I can out and then learn to roll it. Just hope that I don't like it too much and have to sell the boat I've just refurbed! (my missus will kill me!)

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by snapper » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:30 am

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nordkapp-Clas ... 1c22f06202

I like that, dunno what it'll go for though.
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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by sleepybubble » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:41 am

snapper wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nordkapp-Clas ... 1c22f06202

I like that, dunno what it'll go for though.
You'd have to be a sadist to paddle that.


For the OP, spend your money on a paddle. Join a local club and use their Kayaks to find what suits you. Plus you get to learn all the rescue stuff with other people around, which is always useful if it is not working out for you when practicing on your own.

Mark

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by Matt P » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:03 am

I also saw the Nordkapp

I also saw this though - Dagger Exodus @ £600

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by tg » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:36 am

I guess you'd get a pretty standard SINK for that kind of money. Primary, secondary and tertiary stability/comfort zone have all already been mentioned; here it is again, P.S.T.; Pre Swim Thinking. What are you going to do if you capsize your wobbly Nordy and fail to roll, or have to bail? You may well self rescue/roll into the conditions that knocked you out in the first place (this seems to be standard thinking).

I paddle on my own fairly regularly. Over the last couple of years I've failed to roll during practices (on the sea) due to air trapped in my d/suit (at the shoulder). It took a while for me to figure it out and shook my confidence for months. I also practised leaving the 'comfort' zip on said suit partially open. Of course the legs filled with water (it has booties) and could I scramble onto the boat; hell no!

I consider wind at least equally with tide. A broad blade paddle will catch more wind so on the beam you might find Boreas, Zephyr or Notus trying to give you the flip. Occasionally, but rarely, I will tether myself to the boat , and/or my paddle to the boat. Others will disagree but tethering a paddle to you wrist is just asking for it, IMO. Impedes swimming and you have two things to find in the water rather than one.

I'd consider a first boat very thoroughly. Some will feel tottery unless you're under way and one might find that one can't stop for even the merest bite of 'tiffin'. Probably not the same as most SOTs; but I'm guessing.

Surf is good training in a sea kayak. I wouldn't expect an SOT to behave the same way, mainly because of the length, and hull profile. I found I soon got fed up with trailing up the beach to empty the boat.

I am always wary of ego and try not to fall victim to it. I always have enough in the boat; food, b.bag, s.bag, for an overnight. And, it has happened, again rarely, but at least I had the kit on board. It also means that I can change plans enroute too, minimising my risk. Eg; running down sea for an overnight.

Paddle float? Opinions seem to vary. Something you might never use, but a no brainer. They work and are a potential lifesaver IMO.

Training, club and on your own.

T
"I sink therfore I am".

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by dpround » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Perhaps it might be worth considering something like the Epic V8? Sea kayak performance with SOT simplicity allegedly. I have no personal experience of them though.

All the best

David

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by Bards » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Reference that Ebay offering.

I have an old-school Nordkapp HM (not to be confused with more recent versions), and they certainly have their attractions. However it's suitability for being able to lay your paddle down and start playing a fish is not one of them... Primary stability woefully inadequate for that job; I just about manage to mackerel feather when water is flat without too much trouser-soiling, but that's the limit... and even that not enjoyable

Bards

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Re: SOT versus SINK

Post by snapper » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:33 pm

sleepybubble wrote:You'd have to be a sadist to paddle that.
It's been said, but I have the three kayaks I need already.

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