Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

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johnb
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Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by johnb »

Hi Folks,

I think I've exhaustively read all the relevant threads on mounting deck tow lines to boats, but I have some further questions.

I have a Tiderace Xplore S, and being rather "thin", it has some challenges with respect to a deck mounted tow. If you look at the following diagram (original boat picture taken from Tiderace website! - thanks):

Image

The position of the bulkhead and the fact that the day hatch straddles the centre line of the boat limits the position of a fairlead. I've marked two possible positions for the fairlead - A or B. My preference is position A, but this means the tow rope will be running from the cam cleat to the fairlead and negotiating a 90 degree bend to go towards the rear of the boat.

Position B will reduce this angle, but this is more likely to interfere with rear mounted spare paddles and also I was planning on putting the tow line bag on the boat using velcro in the bare deck area, and if the fairlead was in position B, then the rope would be running underneath the bag.

Any comments or suggestions for alternate positioning?

Also, I've seen different options for the fairlead itself - either U bolts or plastic lower profile fairleads such as this one .

To me the U bolt is attractive because it is more versatile being bigger and I could get a security cable through it, but does this have the disadvantage of potential leverage issues or being knocked?

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by TechnoEngineer »

I'd put the fairlead at position B (so the tow rope doesn't interfere with the day hatch) and I'd put the spare paddles on the front deck, with some plastic waste pipe (32mm or 40mm) to help hold them in place.

Where are you thinking of mounting the rope bag?
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Mike Mayberry
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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Mike Mayberry »

johnb wrote:Also, I've seen different options for the fairlead itself - either U bolts or plastic lower profile fairleads such as this one.
I use that same bullseye fairlead in position b on your diagram and it works fine. I mounted the bullseye on a block of wood about two inches high which was glued to the deck so that it doesn't interfere with my splits on the rear deck. The alternative is as TechnoEngineer has suggested and use the front deck for your splits. It's all a question of preference.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by johnb »

Where are you thinking of mounting the rope bag?
In the spare deck space "above" the day hatch in the photo.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Jim »

Congratulations on your new boat!

I also think A will bend the rope too sharply, the friction will hinder release, and also you might snag yourself on the fairlead putting the deck on or rolling (if you ever do that).
B will be very similar to my own arrangement, but my bag is not velcroed on, I used VCP topcleats (from Knoydart) to make an X with shock-cords so the bag just tucks under (it has a velcro strap to attach to he shock cord, and I usually tie the drawstring on too). The rope then runs under the bag, but it is in no danger of removing the bag when the line comes taught when towing. To be honest, towing should be the only time there is an issue, the rope doesn't have to be taught between the cleat and B normally so as long as you make the bag generously enough and maybe use 2 strips of velcro it should stay in place just fine. Leash the bag to the shock cord aft (with it's drawstring?) and even if you do rip the velcro open when towing you won't lose the bag.

Anyone got any thoughts on arranging a deck mounted tow on a boat with an overstern rudder?
I have half a notion that a rasied fairlead right aft would be useful to make sure the rope clears the rudder, but fixing the tow right aft can be a nightmare, and the raised fairlead will look odd.
Is it better to just set the tow up to be offset to one side or the other and avoid swinging your stern accross the bows of the towed boat, using the rudder to counter the yaw moment?

Jim
(still trying to decide on the colour for his new boat)

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by TechnoEngineer »

johnb wrote:
Where are you thinking of mounting the rope bag?
In the spare deck space "above" the day hatch in the photo.
Have you considered mounting it on top of the day hatch? I guess you could use velcro tape on the deck to avoid drilling holes.
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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Aled »

B

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Richard Uren »

b. The angle of pressure / pull is better. Use the space beside the day hatch for the bag.
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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Ceegee »

I use "B". You can angle the cleat more too, so it "points" at the fairlead. That puts the tail handy to grap with your left hand and release.

My bag sits on the first decklines behind. I've 12" of shockcord with a plastic hook at each end stitched to the bag, to hold it taut across the deck between the two lines, open end pointing aft. The line runs from cam-cleat to fairlead, through a 1/2" brass eyelet in the bottom of the bag to the daisy-chained line. The carabiner is outside the bag and tucked under a deck line by the fairlead. Easy to clip the system on/remove (2 seconds). To tow, grab carabiner, clip on towee - paddle. Once the float has tugged free from the neck of the bag, the whole line runs free. Pull from the cam cleat and the tail runs through fairlead and bag and you are free.

Spare paddles on the front deck where I can get them if I need them. I can do a cowboy re-entry over the bag, but not over my spare paddles.
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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by MikeB »

If you've not already seen the Outfitting Sea Boats and Tow Lines articles in the Almanac / DIY page then they may be helpful - position "B" will be fine for the fairlead, and you can run the line thro the bag easily if you want to. I added a brass eyelet to facilitate this, but that was largely because I wanted to keep the bag mounted at an angle.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by johnb »

OK, B it is then.

Mike - I had read the almanac, but the boats featured on there had a bit more real estate to work with.

Any more comments on the actual type of fairlead vs a U bolt? I've got 5mm nuts/bolts for the cam cleat fitting and I'd like to use the same for the fairlead - with the Allen fairleads, this would mean using their largest. http://www.allenbrothers.co.uk/item_det ... =80&id=505

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by mick m »

Why go to so much trubel ? Most of the boats hear have 2 tow points , one eather side of the boat, just behind the hips, it gives the choice as to which side you can tow from, makes a ''Y'' tow easier to perform and gives a beter center to tow from , the ferther to the center of the boat the beter it is,, you dont loos as much ability to manuver and chainge corse the ferther aft you tow from the mare of a droge the tow becumes. your argument may be that its not permanently set up, but you have time to do that when towing, its not a contact tow out of danger tipe thing.
A lot of us youse 3mm vernitian blind cord for open water tows, at 15m its got plenty of strech, no water drag and will snap if sumthing goes drasticaly rong and can be eather wound around a hunk of cloased sell foam or stufed into a stuff bag.
Contact tows are a compleat diferant arangment.

to mount the tow points we youse a loop of 4mm spectra threaded through the deck and glased over on the inside, no sharp fearleads to catch on. or the loop can be tied thriugh existing RDF's . seting up from the side also gets the line away from your spliters on the back deck, the best place for them is you sail , and if your boat has a rudder it helps clear the rudder to . its also best to lift your ruder while seting up the tow, its a lot easier if you hapen to drift over the tow line when deploying it .

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Jim »

Mick has some good ideas, I still prefer the idea of the British way of using thick rope and a cam cleat, but as long as you choose one with a built in fairlead there is no real need for a separation between the cleat and fairlead. I don't think I could be bothered to fit one either side, chances are I would always end up just towing on whichever side is more convenient - the yaw shouldn't be a major issue if you have a skeg or rudder, but I wouldn't want a side tow on the sea king.

When it comes to the actual fairlead considering a security role (if using a separate one) choose a padlock that will fit through the eye with enough space to get both end loops of a swaged cable onto the lock before closing it - there is no need to pass the whole cable through the lock, thus you don't need the extra height and width you gain from a U-bolt, although it might make it easier to thread the line through when using it as a towing point.
If I have to leave my boat on overnight somewhere dodgy I have a chunky plastic coated cable (I think for locking motorbikes up), the eyes just pass through the loop in the top of my uprights, so I thread one end through, wrap under the cross bar and up to the towing fairlead which makes the other end just long enough to also reach the fairlead, the padlock then snaps onto all 3 - just damn good luck by the way, I was using the cable and lock for my bike (it's long enough to go around a railing through the frame and both wheels) and then noticed that it was also the perfect length for the position my boat normally goes on the roof!

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by guy »

I have a fair lead at point B

it interferes with turning - imagine the fair lead was at the stern
trying to turn would be a mare, it is also quite a problem when it is at point B

Where do you put the paddle in a rudder stroke? probably between A & B

Point A would now be my choice

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by geoffm »

I'd go for B too. I have a couple of times gone to the trouble of fitting a deck mounted tow but honestly, for the number of times you need it and the complete lack of versatility I think a waist mounted tow is far better. I have a Jeff Allen Throwtow and it is a brilliant piece of kit.
Geoff

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by johnb »

I've been carrying a waist tow for a while, but since I've had the Xplore the waist tow belt has managed to wear through my spraydeck and create a few holes! (Not sure if I'm keen on the solid plastic backrest of the Xplore, and I think it was the waist tow pushing down against this backrest that wore through the spraydeck.

Generally I dislike having loads of kit attached to me so I thought I'd try the boat mounted tow for a while. Not that I've ever towed in anger anyway....

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Aled »

Hi John,
Personally, I'm a fan of the waist tow over a deck system for various reasons. Have you considered having your waist belt slackened off a bit so that the bag sits in front of you, forward of your BA and resting on the spraydeck, as you paddle? This makes handing the rope/clip easy as it's all in front of you when you need it, and the slack belt can be slung behind you as you begin towing (when its rough or when I've no time, just paddling forward on the tow will drag the bag around). Conversely, after finishing the tow, a quick tug pulls the bag back onto your lap for easy re-packing. This setup for me makes the waist tow comfortable and easy to use.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by johnb »

Hi Aled, I was actually wearing my waist tow (Palm Ocean Pro) with the bag in the front when it wore through my deck. Perhaps a less bulky belt might have behaved better.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by Ken_T »

Hi,
If you use a cleat with an intergrated fairlead I would try it without the additional fairlead. Even though the pul is off centre I have found it makes little difference to the boat handling, but most of the time the line is clear of the stern of the boat which makes paddling easier. Also when you reset the tow on the water after having to drop it, it will be very difficult to rethread the fairlead in any conditions that necessitated droping the tow.
Ken

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by MikeB »

mick m wrote: - - - your argument may be that its not permanently set up, but you have time to do that when towing, its not a contact tow out of danger tipe thing.

A lot of us youse 3mm vernitian blind cord for open water tows, at 15m its got plenty of strech, no water drag and will snap if sumthing goes drasticaly rong .
The one time I've had to set a tow "in anger", as in, it was very much for real, the very last thing I'd have wanted to be doing was faffing around trying to thread the line thro the fairlead on the cleat! Staying upright and just getting the line connected was quite enough excitement for all of us at the time.

I'm also not sure I actually want to have a line which is going to break - I see where you're coming from, but the reality is that in big seas there's going to be a lot of pressure on that line as boats are surfed / bounced around - having a line break is only going to add to the challenges in an already stressed situation.

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Re: Yet another towline thread [Tiderace Xplore S]

Post by geoffm »

I have tried thin cord in the past and I have found it has a remarkable tendency to tangle and knot. Thicker rope is far less likely to get into a mess when you least need it.
Geoff

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