Which Greenland Paddle?

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Rich L
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Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Rich L » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:17 pm

Hi,

It's my 40th birthday and I'm looking to treat myself to a split Greenland paddle, I would like one that looks as good as it paddles.

I'd welcome any advice or recommendations?

Best,

Rich.

rowlandW
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by rowlandW » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:30 pm

Rich,

Have a look at these. http://www.blacklightpaddles.com/

Rowland

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Ceegee
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Ceegee » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:34 pm

No question - if you want to treat yourself to a bit of bling it's gotta be Novorca

I'm sure they can do a 2-piece.

http://novorca.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 020201.jpg
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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snapper
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by snapper » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:58 pm

Dear Deirdre,

My wife has left me, unable to accept my proclivities. Just because it's not latex or leather doesn't mean that carbon fibre is perverted surely? I have to confess that it is starting to take over my life and while she could accept my rubbing of Nordkapps and licking of Kinetic Wings (not to mention stroking the shaft on my Mystik until late at night) she has drawn the line at the Novorca, threatened perhaps by that beguiling look in its symmetry? She feels threatened and has issued me an ultimatum, it's the carbon fibre or me.

yours,

Neoprene neil
Chatham 17-Scupper Pro-RRRapido
2011 Launches 102

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snapper
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by snapper » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:59 pm

Oh, don't worry about replying deirdre, she just told me to stick my paddles up my a*** so has clearly accepted me for what i am.
Chatham 17-Scupper Pro-RRRapido
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Yakdiver
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Yakdiver » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:23 pm

What about a lump of 4x2 and a power planner
Name Richard
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tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:57 pm

.... you'll need a hinge if you do that.

I prefer a squared (rectangular section) loom on a gp, How about others?

All these flashy hollow chippable carbon gps. Round or squarish loom?

Why split? Surely you can carry a spare on front deck. I use a crab at the far front end of my decklines to hold the blade in place and standard deck bungees for the rest.

I can retrieve it quick for a roll/rescue. Easy peasy.

Wood is good!

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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Ceegee
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Ceegee » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:43 pm

tg wrote:.... you'll need a hinge if you do that.
No so Tim, Avatak in Italy do a clever two-piece in wood. Basically it is a square spring-loaded metal ferrule which slots into the other half a bit like a Samurai sword into the sheath (seen a photo somewhere before, but can't find to post)

Prices are from €240 and €40 extra for 2-piece.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Steve,

But it's all in a foreign language, Italian, by the look of it.

My gp was made by a boatbuilding friend of mine. To my own spec. The old crappy one I cut down to make a Canadian style rolling paddle, which is good for rolling ...

Seriously, thanks for ze linx I am moving more and more toward gp only daze and could do with a spare myself. Now when will I be 40, oh dash it all ... 50?

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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watt
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by watt » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:39 pm

Avatak has an english page, but the server currently is very slow (normally not).

I visited Nico (it's a one man business) two years ago when he made my "Terranova" paddle (see http://ostfriesland-entdecken.de/anders ... ggiore.php ). Fantastic work, worth every cent. Combination of pine wood and mahogany, epoxy glassed ends, several layers of PU lacquer. Paddles like a dream because of it's sharp edges.

I'm still searching for a glass/carbon GP below 300 EUR.

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gnarlydog
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by gnarlydog » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:28 pm

I paddle with traditional paddles exclusively (GP and Aleut).
I have solid WRC, laminated WRC, hollow core WRC and a carbon one.
There is a difference between the wood and carbon but the sturdiness of my carbon GP gives me confidence in the surf (http://gnarlydognews.blogspot.com/2010/ ... could.html )
On one occasion I have managed to snap a solid core WRC, but that was surfing.
As mentioned before: a fine edge of the blade makes for a silent paddle. Fine edge and wood can be fragile. Look for hardwood on tips if paddling along rocky shores

tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:11 am

This is going to sound really OCD (as if posting here was'n't proof enough) but my laminated Western Red Cedar and Alder speaks to me when I paddle, if you're near me you'll know it's true.. you can hear it. Trouble is I don't know what it's saying. Creepy eh?

I'd love to buy another 'off the peg', as it were. But I don't want to piss Pete off, and will it talk? Luckily I am a spiritual person, or at least consider myself so, and I think it's unlucky to be superstitious... I am fortunate. Talking paddles; what will they think of next?

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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Ceegee
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Ceegee » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:44 pm

Sorry for deviating slightly, but re-reading the "New Tiderace" thread (which partially deteriorated into a slagging of British Leyland cars and all things '70s) I couldn't help wondering if anybody recalls the original "Sea Paddles" of the era?

Basically two 6x24" plywood strips on a looooong pole, were these a (subconscious) attempt to emulate GP sticks from some closet folk memory, or just something dreamed up in Derek Hutchinson's garden shed? Anybody ever paddle with these and if so, with what experience? A rather poor image shown below (the paddle blade is the orange "dayglo" thing on the left)

Image
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

John W
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by John W » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:10 pm

What about Anglesey Sticks?

http://www.angleseystick.com/section46.htm

Rather nicely made paddles customised to your specs.

JW

sleepybubble
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by sleepybubble » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:51 pm

John W wrote:What about Anglesey Sticks?

http://www.angleseystick.com/section46.htm

Rather nicely made paddles customised to your specs.

JW
I did a really good paddle today using a borrowed one of these. Including towing somebody into a F6 headwind. Lets just say I will no longer be lusting after a crank shaft werner carbon paddle anymore. Pass me a seagull please I'm converted!


Mark

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MikeB
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by MikeB » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:57 pm

Interesting! What made it so good?

(On the subject of seagulls, here are some recipies to tempt you in your new found desires --.)

Mike.

tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:09 pm

MikeB,

.... as compared to a euro. or Anglesey Stck vs other gps?

If it's euro. vs gp I could almost be moved to rhyme. Mine talks to me when I paddle, honest.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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MikeB
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by MikeB » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:14 pm

A good euro - -

Owen
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by Owen » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:31 pm

Ceegee wrote:Sorry for deviating slightly, but re-reading the "New Tiderace" thread (which partially deteriorated into a slagging of British Leyland cars and all things '70s) I couldn't help wondering if anybody recalls the original "Sea Paddles" of the era?

Basically two 6x24" plywood strips on a looooong pole, were these a (subconscious) attempt to emulate GP sticks from some closet folk memory, or just something dreamed up in Derek Hutchinson's garden shed? Anybody ever paddle with these and if so, with what experience? A rather poor image shown below (the paddle blade is the orange "dayglo" thing on the left)

Image

Still in use to this day.
Image
Archie Sinclair (of Argonauts of the western Isles fame) still paddling with the original gear.

sleepybubble
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by sleepybubble » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:42 pm

MikeB wrote:Interesting! What made it so good?

(On the subject of seagulls, here are some recipies to tempt you in your new found desires --.)

Mike.

Ok the things that made it good were.... remarkable powerful. No problem getting up to speed to catch waves to surf. Related to surfing, it provided a very firm brace with very little apparent drag.
Extended sweeps were a doddle, I was playing with sliding strokes as well and its such a simple technique. It had no problem doing bow rudders etc and it even made crossbow rudders really easy, I was messing around at one point on an eddy line trying to do that Chicago hook thing that Gordon likes so much.
Back to power again, I would have done the tow on a Euro bladed paddle but I know that by the end of it my right arm would of been screaming in agony, I had a trapped nerve for twelve months which has left me with still damaged nerves in that arm. However on the stick I did not suffer any pain at all.
It was not exactly a super hot day today, March in the Hebrides with occasional sleet and a 5/6 wind is pogies weather for sure, but and I know this sounds weird but the stick felt warm. I had to slip out of my pogies to clip the tow and then put down some grunt so did not bother putting them back on. From playing in the pool I know for a fact it is far easier to roll with than a euroblade.

hmmm I'm waffling. So in short. Warm to touch, just as powerful but less strenous. Just as capable in any circumstance. Cheaper in general than a Euroblade of any sort of quality. Intuitive to roll with.

Mark

Mark

tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:54 pm

Wind resistance
Roll. Screw roll is now called a storm roll (sexier) and you don't have move your hands it's just there. No resistance in trailing blade.
It floats
Incredibly economic stroke (feels undergeared at the beginning and like you could keep going all round the UK at the end)
Flutter (some complain of this; in my case overpowering the blade with poor technique in the beginning, takes a while)
Light, okay carbons are v.light, but it's intrinsic to design and materials. My laminate is lighter than my LK Wing.
Comfortable. Squared loom is my preference. It falls into the hand jus' so. Feels very natural
Sliding stroke. Move your hands along the loom a little to get alonger stroke on one side, for direction control.
Wing. Oh yes brethren and sistren, it's not as new an idea as you may have thought! You can wing it when you swing it.
Feather the boatside edge towards aft for super grip and a healthy twang to give a little more oomph.
Power. Okay you can't grab a big handful of sea and through it behind, just up the rhythm and slide a little.
Launch/landing entry/exit. My carbs (Lendal Kinetic Wing) have chipped and I'm not happy about touching shoreside or anything else with it. Let alone clambering over the boat. Gp is a real handy shaped lump of wood for these things.
Wester Red Cedar is de rigeur material and is light and strong. My current is WRC with Alder laminate for more strong.
You can use it for poling.
Rescues are a p of p. There's no cumbersome spade like lump in the way. Slip it under you d.lines for an outrigger add a float and it's really stable.

All of the above is easier more comfortable and smile making because it's warm to the touch and the correct shape.

Why did the greenland and baidarka kayaks evolve to be what they are? Someone once said the Inuit only had driftwood, implying that they were limited to the design. I don't believe a word of it. More like 'drift forest'; plenty of options. Anyhow if you're happy with traditional boat design; consider paddle design! Don't forget Mr. Pawalata invented the euro. paddle, and the 'new' roll that went with it. Perhaps he had a reason; being a Cynic, I suspect he had. Maybe at the time it was for the greater good, probably was, maybe it was because he had some lumber to sell, maybe kayaks and canoes of the time were not as refined as the vessels we paddle. Look, we know they were nowhere near what we have now, a yard wide and not sure of their identity; kayak, canoe, sailing dingey? Duh.

First tried one about three yrs ago. It's a marmite moment. I bought myself a cheap pine gp to make sure. It was crap, but confirmed my opinion. Had boatbuilder Pete make one for me and now paddle all my kayaks with gp as first choice.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:00 pm

tg wrote:Screw roll is now called a storm roll (sexier) and you don't have move your hands it's just there.
I don't think that's right, IIRC the storm roll is more like a C-C roll and avoids the paddle being exposed to wind. The "vertical storm roll" looks fun!

I have to say I'm becoming increasingly tempted to try one out, are there any budget options?
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:10 pm

Coul be mistaken there TE but I don't know what a CtoC is and when it's been explained to me I haze over and dream of cedar forests. What is CtoC?, for second time of asking on UKSKGB. Like a screw roll made on the move? Perpendicular to the body ... no,no, I can't imagine it still!

Jus' put gp in water think magic word and air fills the lung.

What is CtoC? What is the first C and what is the second C? I don't know....

Tim

Edit; Try one asap. They're Greeaaat! IMO of course.
"I sink therfore I am".

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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:13 pm

Try this, Tim - there's a split screen section which demonstrates the differences (on a sweep roll you do a hipsnap earlier in the sweep):
http://wavesport.ning.com/profiles/blog ... leshooting

Also see this - there's a YouTube vid from him demonstrating that the "C" refers to the shape of the body curved round (with a very flexible girl).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dguv1CdEJXQ

http://www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:19 pm

And a couple on Storm rolls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERsZr6L299o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhHHVsC39kw

as you'll see - they are C-C rolls with front deck recovery
Last edited by TechnoEngineer on Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:20 pm

Okay, while it loads, what does CtoC mean? Probably Cash (goes) To Coaches! :-)

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:21 pm

TechnoEngineer wrote:the "C" refers to the shape of the body curved round (with a very flexible girl).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dguv1CdEJXQ
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:21 pm

Back on topic, are there any budget options? IIRC someone runs courses from time to time where you make your own?
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tg
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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Okay from the second yowtoob clip I can now safely assure myself that the Inuit Storm Roll used to be called the Pawlata (if a euro convert). It's the roll I'm talking about, 'cept I just hold the loom and don't reach to the rear blade. Well, if it's really stormy I might.
The firs clip looked fake. Vertical Storm Roll; he looked like he was pushing of the bottom the rotter. I don't think the North Sea is deep enough for that kind of behaviour. Seriously, I will of course practise that until I nail it! It looks like what I would call (or rather would have called..in the ol' days) a levered roll. Boat not moving and paddle drawn vertically for an Arnie type righting. Kinda makes sense. (I bet the scoundrel was sculling underwater anyway).

BTW what does CtoC mean? Anybody...? I may have already been told in this thread but,... the smell of Tung oil on cedar, the looming massive of the untamed wildlyness.. the trees; there are so many...

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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Re: Which Greenland Paddle?

Post by tg » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:44 pm

TE,

Yup,
Yakdiver wrote:What about a lump of 4x2 and a power planner
I don't see why not. There's plenty on www and homies do make 'em.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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