Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

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wideblueyonder
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Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by wideblueyonder » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:02 pm

Any ideas on what this boat is - a friend has been offered it as a freebie and current owner is unsure what it is??
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CRC
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by CRC » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:14 pm

Islander Expedition?

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Richard Uren » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:27 pm

seahawk
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Ceegee » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:56 pm

The bow does indeed look like a Trylon Seahawk. The VCP hatches weren't standard on the early models and I don't recall a day hatch/pump mount recess on my one, circa 1979.

Hard to tell from such an oblique foto. Have you got a side-on photo of deck & hull?

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by MikeB » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:40 pm

From 2005, some pics of a Seahawk which may help.

A lot of these were self builds so the hatch instals will vary a lot I suppose. The one linked above doesn't have any.

Its certainly not an Island Exped. VCP hatches and early recessed deck fittings rule that out.

Might be a Valley Selkie?

More pics, and dimensions please --

Mike.

guidomax
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by guidomax » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:54 pm

Here's two other pics of the hull (I'm the one after the info)... this is all I've got I'm afraid.

Oh, and it's 16' long.

Thanks for any help :)

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Image

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Ceegee » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:44 pm

Could be a Selkie I suppose - 16' 6" long, 23.5" wide - that sharp stern keel has me a bit thrown. Anyone?

Selkie here:
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Jim
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Jim » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:46 pm

If it helps, the RDFs are the same as the ones on my Sea King, which was also a Trylon boat. The deck shape forward and the cockpit look similar too.
The RDF layout is different to mine, deck aft looks different and the hull is obviously different (no chines).

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Ceegee » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:24 pm

IIRC, the earlier Valley boats had similar moulded bar RDFs per MikeB in the Almanac

Also, the early (McNulty-Seaglass) Hutchinson designs (i.e. Baidarka) had similar RDF's.

This is also the Trylon Seahawk/Seaking era (late 70's) and because so many were home-builds of rental-molds, I don't wonder that a variety of OEM fittings made their way into these boats.

Steve
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guidomax
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by guidomax » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:05 am

Thanks for the insight, all. I'm going to take it off my mate's hands and see how it paddles - after all that's the important thing, eh? ;)
I'll have a good look over it and see if I can find any identifying marks. Your knowledge is appreciated! Will update the thread if I find anything out.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by Mark R » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:15 am

Islander Expedition, 100% sure.

Another one in the pic here, for comparison...

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gasserra
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by gasserra » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am

While the photos are not definitive, I don't think it's a VCP Selkie. I owned a Selkie for a while--this boat does not appear to have the marked Swede form of the Selkie with the Selkie's very short hull aft the cockpit, its fore-hull in not fine enough, and its stern does not rise (note the stern in the posted Selkie photo).

Having paddled the Selkie a bit...I understand why it was discontinued...

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by PeteW » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:14 pm

Another vote for the Islander (Wye Kayaks of old)

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by MikeB » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:41 pm

Ah! Interesting - I was thinking of the Island Kayaks of Skye - so there's another one - - -

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by PeteW » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:10 pm

Geoff McGladdary (Sp?) used to run Wye Kayaks in Hereford late 70s early 80s - designed and built the Islander, later extended by 1/2 a metre or so to become the Islander Expedition. He also did a bigger boat with a built in rudder in a 'window' through a nordkapp HM type built in skeg - cannot remember the name of that one though and I dont think it sold many. The company later became Hereford Glassfibre and did the initial development work with Derek Hutchinson on the Orion (from the Fjiord I think) before that design went home to P&H.

mine of useless information :-)

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??

Post by arnold » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:47 am

Pretty sure it's a Wye Kayaks Islander.
I recall they made a standard Islander and a longer model, the Islander Expedition.
Dragonworks in the USA seems to make them still:
http://www.dragonworkskayaks.com/the-sturgeon.html

Rumours says the Islander stood model for the Nibbix Zembla seakayak from Mr. Harry Tieken (Tiekano /the Netherlands). After moving to Canada the Nibbix Zembla became the Tieken Kayaks Sealution, which was later also produced as a PE-version by Wilderness Systems.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by Aled » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:28 pm

Good info Arnold, a bit of Googling on all those names/models came up with lots of interesting history. Ta!

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by trick cyclist » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:43 pm

Hi, bit of a thread resurrection from a new user here! I've been offered one of these to buy for £120, the markings are definately Wye Kayaks 'Islander' on the one I have seen, which is the same layout as the one the OP has listed. I thought the price was very steep, especially as it has no hatch covers (lost), but I'm interested as I'm somewhat impoverished and have no boat of my own, going out on occasions with a friend. Do you think this boat is worth a punt, and what sort of price would you put on a bare boat that has some old repairs done and needs a light refurb? Thanks for any advice.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by MikeB » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:58 pm

Assuming the hatches are VCP 19cm ones, you're looking at £21 or so a cover. What's the boat worth? Who knows. Anything is only worth what you're willing to pay for it, assuming the seller is willing to sell it at the price you're willing to pay.

Would I pay £120 knowing I have to then spend at least £42 on hatch covers and (no doubt) quite a bit for new deck lines and toggles, not to mention quite a lot on sorting the repairs if they've not been properly done and quite a lot on polish etc to make it look nice - - - ? Don't know. What do you think?

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by trick cyclist » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm

MikeB wrote:Would I pay £120 knowing I have to then spend at least £42 on hatch covers and (no doubt) quite a bit for new deck lines and toggles, not to mention quite a lot on sorting the repairs if they've not been properly done and quite a lot on polish etc to make it look nice - - - ? Don't know. What do you think?
Those were my exact thoughts. I guess the real question I'm asking is "Is this boat worthy of the effort?" I'm more than happy to get my hands dirty doing as much work as I can, and bringing it closer to how it was originally, as I'm a great lover of quality vintage things that can function as well as modern stuff, but am I wasting my time with a boat that was never great when it was first made?

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by MikeB » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:22 pm

Well, it's certainly not a Nordkapp HM, that's for sure. No idea if its any good - have you paddled it? Do you like it?

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trick cyclist
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by trick cyclist » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:36 pm

That's the next thing to do, although at the right price I could forgive it a lot of issues! From what little anecdotal evidence I can find, it seemed to be held in fair regard, with no particular issues, and the design lives on, as Arnold says, as the Dragonworks Sturgeon. Yes, I need to see if I like it, and go from there.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by Jim » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:02 pm

Is there anything else around for a similar price at the moment? If not it's probably worth it, but if you are on a limited budget look at what you would plan to change almost immediately and then decide if you need to wait for something requiring less work.

Realistically this is the sort of price I would be advising people to look at spending on a first boat, rather than doing a few demos and then buying something brand new. If you get on well with it you will probably keep it for many years and will over time think of upgrades or additions, or find that extensive repairs are needed in places. The old repairs if done well will still be sound, if done badly a new repair would be no better - sometimes the fact that repairs have managed to become old is a good sign (other times it is irelevant and they leak anyway). If you don't like it you should know before you spend too much on it and should be able to sell it on for about the same amount - possibly a bit more with hatch covers. You have to expect some expenditure on a boat though.

Lets say for example that I bought my Sea King for £200 about 12 years ago - thats £16.67 per year for the original boat.
I replaced the elastics early on, can't remember about the deck lines (probably also) say £40 including topcleats for the elastics.

I have carried out a lot of repairs over the years, I already had some resin, I have bought more at various times but it has never all gone on the boat - lets assume about £50 of resin (that's a lot), some woven roving cloth in the big repair, don't know left over from old project, maybe a coupe of reels of fibreglass tape for keel strips etc? another £10, some pigment and filler powders , thinners, consumables - call it another £50 (£150 so far?). I have been through many versions of electric pump arrangement but the boat has a perfectly good henderson chimp pump so lets assign the £hundreds I have spent messing with electrics to a different 'fun' budget rather than boat essentials. My footrest is carved from foam so I must have bought that, I know I bought a foam seat a few months ago and foam to support it, and some glue - say £100 in total. I have had 3 or 4 hatch covers , say £80 (expcet to replace these every few years - see separate thread). Also I have probably spent £30 or 40 sealing the bulkheads (now seems to work!). So cost of ownership for 12 years is about £370, lets call it £400.

Thus if I amortise the cost of owning a sea kayak over the last 12 years I come up with a figure of about £50 per year. This is nothing!

My new boat will be in a different league, it will take me more than the rest of my life to get the initial cost down to £50/year, but I bet the cost in still peanuts compared to golf club membership or something.

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trick cyclist
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by trick cyclist » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:24 am

Thanks for the interest one and all - I have bought it, and will keep you updated in the fullness of time (in a new thread), and to just draw a line under the OPs question, definately a Wye Islander, the deck pump recess, keel and recessed fittings confirm it.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by NiallSkinner » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:02 pm

Hi Trick Cyclist,
I recently made a similar purchase - a 1983 Wye Islander (bare boat - no hatches / deck lines etc.) - mine does not have recessed deck fittings though.... I bought it as a first sea boat, a bit cheaper than yours but needing more work. I am no expert paddler (or even intermediate really), but I have found it a nice boat - I thought from many comments about its relatively flat central hull that the primary vs. secondary stability might be an issue, but I find it doesn't like slight seas, but once it gets a bit rougher it feels really stable. I need to do some work to make it more comfortable and I guess I must be right at the top end weight limit for it, but I plan to keep on using it until I fond a boat I really like, so I don't think it can be that bad. As I am sure you have seen elsewhere a form of the design still seems to be in production, and that gets pretty good writeups. Would be interesting to hear what you think of it...

Niall

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by nivlac » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:03 pm

Image
kayak by nivlac2013, on Flickr

Wye Islander

This is my newly acquired Wye Islander.
I find this a stable and forgiving sea kayak, feels more stable in a swell when sat on an edge.

fully working foot bilge pump.

gel coat has some hairline cracks but still solid.

cost me more to replace the hatch covers than what I paid for it !

I have just returned to Sea kayak after a break of 4 years and it has not had me in yet
Last edited by nivlac on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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trick cyclist
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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by trick cyclist » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:34 pm

Nivlac, that looks to be in really good condition! Mine is a little scratched/dulled/used, and I have taken all of the decklines off to replace them - one of the recessed fittings was reglassed, and the line was bound in! You are quite right about new hatches costing more than the boat. Now I've got used to going out in the Solent, the small and tight cockpit is not too bad, and it seems to handle F2 okay. Must take it out in some F4 to see how it copes, particularly as I'm on the weight limit too!

Sorry Niall, didn't mean to ignore you, just that I had not paddled it much at all when you posted. I have been paddling my Dagger Charleston a lot though (don't ask how I ended up with two boats from having none!), and they are like chalk and cheese, though the Charleston is one fast boat for a 14' fatso!

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by pathbrae » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:16 pm

Nivlac -- that looks like a very nice Islander indeed - I wonder if mine was ever that colour :-)

I'd agree it's an Islander - although the angle of the photograph makes it hard to be certain.

I bought mine about 20 years ago for £50 (probably not too far off the £120 at today's prices) and still paddle it from time to time. It has excellent initial stability, not so much secondary (but nothing alarming) and responds well to edging / leaning to steer.
Only issue I find with mine is that the seat is very far back in the cockpit so the cockpit rim is often pushing against my back as the boat pitches through waves, which gets a bit sore and bruised after a long lumpy paddle.
It's a very strong boat and walking out along the deck to get in or out doesn't cause any nasty flexing.
The cockpit is very far back in the boat and looks a bit odd on the roof of the car but doesn't cause any problems on the water.
Handling is OK - it doesn't like being caught by a following sea much and tends to try to broach but is OK in everything else. Fairly manoeuvrable so it's easy to get back on line when the tail has been pushed round and it copes OK with surf landings with edging / paddle stern rudder holding a line reasonable well.
Rolling is surprisingly easy for such a beamy boat and it's not too slow, given its a fairly short boat.
Mine came with a tie-on skeg which was probably home-made and which I've never used, a chimp pump, towing jam cleat and the original clamp on VCP hatches which still keep the sea out after all these years. I replaced the deck lines and toggles and fitted an Ethafoam bulkhead / footrest to bring down the cockpit volume a bit should I ever need to do a wet entry so I've possibly spent another £50 on bits and pieces over the years.
There's a lot of space behind the seat so emptying it isn't as easy as with a more modern design - but I suspect a lot of boats will have had a bulkhead glassed in and the pump replaced with a hatch to make them a bit more sea-safe and give a bit of extra dry storage. I prefer to keep my boats as original as possible so I just fill the space with a dry bag.
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by pathbrae » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:31 pm

Image
IMGP0459-small by photopath, on Flickr


That's my old Islander hiding under a mountain of gear - certainly not a nice shiny yellow boat any more!
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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Re: Mystery Boat - Any ideas??^

Post by Sheepskin » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:10 pm

Any idea on max foot size for the Islanders? Got the chance of one and am wondering if it can be done 6'2" 13stone size 11 but with boots more like 12

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