Touring cag^

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michelin
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Touring cag^

Post by michelin » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:21 pm

I'm looking into buying a touring cag as I have just got myself a sea kayak,I want one that will do all year round and I want a pretty good one not a cheap one that I will haveto replace in a couple of months. I quite like the Palm ones the aleution and the tasman .Anyone got any ideas which would be a very good cag for me doesnt haveto be Palm
Cheers

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Kate D
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Kate D » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:00 pm

Check out multiple threads regarding Palm gear falling apart. Suggest you try pretty much any make other than Palm.

Kate

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MikeB
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Re: Touring cag

Post by MikeB » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:07 pm

You may find some of the comments in this thread helpful - I asked broadly the same question.

I now have the Palm kit I bought and so far have only worn the sallys, which are quite impressive. The cag (Aleution) also appears to be well made, comfortable and the only negative I have found is that the neck openign is not as wide as I would like and the closure tab and collar sits a bit high and tends to catch my chin, which I suspect will be annoying.

There are however numerous reports of Palm kit delaminating so I will be watching this stuff like the proverbial hawk to see what happens and if it starts falling apart I'll be looking for a refund.

I had VERY good service from my Kokatat cag I have to say - and I recommend them. In this instance though, I've opted to try a less expensive product. Being on the large size, I've found that most of the other decent makes just aren't big enough and it seems to be only Palm and Kokatat kit which comes in big enough sizes.

What I would say though is that getting one cag for all seasons will be challenging - my own experience is that one which is going to give enough protection in autumn / winter / spring when paddling in more demandign conditions will possibly be a bit warm in summer! At least that's what I found with my Kokatat one, and which is the reason the new Palm cag hasn't been worn as yet.

Hope this helps - Mike.

OGB
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Re: Touring cag

Post by OGB » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:21 pm

An "all year round" cag? Does such a thing exist?

I have a Reed touring cag that does a good job between May and October, and a Palm Aleutian for the colder months. Happy with both but this isn't a cheap option. I don't know what you might buy that will fit your wishlist, but a combination of "warm weather" cag and a Storm Cag (in the basic form: a cheap anorak style smock from Milletts) might do the job. When I started kayaking I used this combination for a while and it worked pretty well - but not stylish and not pretty.

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keith
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Re: Touring cag

Post by keith » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:30 pm

I really like my Kokatat TecTour. Mine is the previous model and it's fine in warm weather with just a t-shirt/thermal underneath. Even in cold weather I tend to just use a micro-fleece (Patagonia R1 for me). Hood fits well when it's raining. It's starting to wear out now in the usual places, easily patched I guess. I wish they did a wider range of colours though. I like the off-white Palm use, but their kit seems to only last one outing!

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=xtt

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Mark R
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Mark R » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:11 pm

Kate D wrote:Check out multiple threads regarding Palm gear falling apart. Suggest you try pretty much any make other than Palm.
Hmm. I've never seen any thread about Palm gear falling apart, unless you can point me to one?

I can remember threads about the old Stikine suits delaminating (and have experienced this) and they've had issues with salt corrosion on some zips. I think that's it.
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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:37 pm

Yes my Palm Stikine and my daughter's Element suit both suffered from delamination. Palm have very good aftercare and my daughter's was fixed under warranty once and mine has had 4 warranty repairs and a very expert replacement of neck and wrist seals for £55 including postage. This involved complete replacement of the seal and retaping the new seal in. I have a fully waterproof Stikine which is now 4 years old and I am very pleased with it. My other Palm stuff like decks and throw bags is bombproof.

I have a Kokatat tectour cag and it is my used piece of kayak equipment. I have had 5 seasons use out of it and use it summer and winter. The Goretex is so breathable I rarely get too hot in it even in the height of summer, it also has a very unrestricting cut. If I was buying a new cag, I would get another Kokatat, despite the cost.

Douglas

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Steen Johansen
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Steen Johansen » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:21 pm

Mark R wrote:Hmm. I've never seen any thread about Palm gear falling apart, unless you can point me to one?
Here are some links which have made most of my club members avoid Palm Dry suits and cags:

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... ed#p490515

http://solentseakayaking.co.uk/2009/12/ ... n-drysuit/

http://simon-willis.blogspot.com/2009/1 ... eview.html

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... =4&t=54993

I have used a Palm Aleutian dry suit for three years without any problems. I have used a Palm cockpit cover. It delaminated after two years and was no longer water proof. I bought another one from Reed. Now I am planning to buy a spare dry suit. A friend of mine waited four months on a repair on his Palm Aleutian dry suit. That is a long time off the water ...

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Mark R
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Mark R » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:43 pm

Steen Johansen wrote:
Mark R wrote:Hmm. I've never seen any thread about Palm gear falling apart, unless you can point me to one?
Here are some links which have made most of my club members avoid Palm Dry suits and cags:
An odd and unconvincing choice of links - a link from the same poster as the rather vague 'all Palm kit falls apart' post I queried above, some mentions of the old delam issue that I mentioned above, and (unless I missed anything in my skim through), both Simon Willis and the Solent guy say they have had no probs with quality in their new suits.

I choose and buy Palm kit for sea and WW and am generally happy with it. I am convinced it's the best designed UK gear available. Been using the stuff in testing conditions in the UK and overseas expeditions for many years and have only encountered the orange Stikine delam issue, and the stupid rusting zip phase they went through (and some dubiously designed WW boots, but this is a sea forum). And no, I'm not sponsored by them.
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Steen Johansen
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Steen Johansen » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:21 pm

Mark R wrote:An odd and unconvincing choice of links
Here are some more:
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... =4&t=54993
http://www.npmb.com/cms2/e107_plugins/f ... p?112894.0
http://www.kayakacrossthewater.co.uk/ta ... n-drysuit/

If you find these links odd too you are welcome to try googling yourself.
Mark R wrote: I am convinced it's the best designed UK gear available.
Do you have a British car too?
My Palm Aleutian is made in China. Maybe that is why it is still waterproof?

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Mark R
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Mark R » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:52 pm

You used that first link already - odder and odder.

I''m not claiming that Palm gear never fails, nor am I claiming that you won't find unhappy strangers if you Google for them on the internet. I'm just making two simple points;

- I don't recall this forum as being full of posts about Palm gear 'falling apart' (beyond a specific Historic issue) as claimed.
- My personal experience with their gear has generally been very positive. I'm an experienced paddler, and also in the lucky financial/social position of being able to get access to pretty well any gear and pick and choose what I use; I'm happy to keep using the Palm stuff.
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CCL
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Re: Touring cag

Post by CCL » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:07 pm

I'm not sponsored either ...

I've just thrown my OLD aleutian cag in the bin after about 5 years of fairly 'hard' use and plenty of abuse. It was absolutely brilliant until just recently when the material seemed to be a bit heavy and porous. It certainly did not delaminate and I would say that it served the purpose very well indeed for as long as could be reasonably expected ;)

I have a goretex kokatat drysuit which is about 3 years old....super expensive but after several multiday trips on ww and on the sea, it is probably not quite as wonderful as it used to be either.

My new cag, for sea kayaking is not the full on all year round cag (I couldnt track down an Aleutian in my size when I looked last month) is still a Palm cag - orange Newfoundland. It has just been with me on an 8 day multiday trip and was perfect for this time of year.

If money was no object, I would go for a kokatat goretex cag....but I will have no hesitation at all about buying a new Aleutian as soon as its in stock.

I have always found Palm to be very easy to deal with - for repairs or queries. My kokatat drysuit needs servicing now but sending it to the USA for new socks and pressure testing is quite frankly, a pain in the neck.

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MikeB
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Re: Touring cag

Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:35 pm

Well, I'm delighted to hear that Mark R is pleased with his Palm kit - and also that it is performing ok. I say this having recently bought some.

To date, the Aleutian cag has now had some use and I can report that it certainly doesn't breathe as well as the TecTour it replaced and I'd prefer a wider opening neck vent. On the plus side, it is very comfortable, the wrist seals don't hurt my wrists like the Kokatat ones did (even after 6 years) and I rather like the handwarmer pocket!

The Sidewinder combi-bib I bought at the same time is most excellent so far - but I would comment that by the time you've got it on, put the cag on (with the double-seal system in place), put the s/deck on and then a ba on top, there's nil breathability around the waist / lower chest area and I'm always damp from perspiration around that area now.

The sock design is significantly better than the sock design on my Kokatat dry suit, and I have to say that having switched to Lomo boots with the Sidewinders it's a revelation always having dry feet after many years of wearing wellies with my Knoydart sallies and usually getting water over the top at some point.

The crucial test though is whether the Palm kit continues to perform - and I'm reckoning two to three years at the very least. If I get that, I'll be happy. The TecTour gave me 6 years of service, of which realistically the last 18 months or so showed it to be increasingly leaky - but as it was nearly worn tho in places, can I complain?

Mike.

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Kate D
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Re: Touring cag

Post by Kate D » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:44 pm

When I refered to Palm kit falling appart, I should have used the term delaminated. Sorry if this has caused any confusion.
I had a Palm Aleutian cag at the start of this year. The pannels under the arms delaminated into huge 'blisters' about 2" across. This was after just 5 days on the water. The shop exchanged it for another Aleutian which did exactly the same thing after about 10 days on the water. This time I exchanged it for a different make of cag. To have 2 cags fail in exactly the same way with so little use has made me very reluctant to buy anything else from Palm.

Kate

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keith
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Re: Touring cag

Post by keith » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:56 pm

Kate D wrote:When I refered to Palm kit falling appart, I should have used the term delaminated. Sorry if this has caused any confusion.
I had a Palm Aleutian cag at the start of this year. The pannels under the arms delaminated into huge 'blisters' about 2" across. This was after just 5 days on the water. The shop exchanged it for another Aleutian which did exactly the same thing after about 10 days on the water. This time I exchanged it for a different make of cag. To have 2 cags fail in exactly the same way with so little use has made me very reluctant to buy anything else from Palm.

Kate
This is also what happened to a friends Aleutian, and the zips went all rusty too!!

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