PRIVATE BEACH

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Mark Steel
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PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Mark Steel »

Last weekend after paddling back from the Isle of whight over to Hurst myself and 3 other paddlers pulled up on the beach a mile or so east of Hurst, a chap came over and said we could not stop there (only for a short break)as he owned the foreshore. there was no fenced off area and no signs to say it was private, we were below the HW mark, he said he owned it to LW. does anyone know if this is correct or not.

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Mark R
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Mark R »

I can recall a similar experience years ago elsewhere on Wight, it's nonsense of course.

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Bazza S
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Bazza S »

It's rubbish!

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scotty
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by scotty »

I cant think where you would be,there are salt pans and mud flats east of keyhaven,there are no landing signs for nesting birds on mud flats either side of Lymington river,the only place ive been told is private is further east nearer to the new forest and the dire straights houses but was only informed by a dog walker not asked to leave,on the island i can only think of osbourne bay and newtown firing range for no landing signs.

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Wenley
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Wenley »

As I understand it, the general principle in England is that the soil of the sea and shore where water ebbs and flows and of the lands below high water mark are the Crown's property. There are however, exceptions by grant or prescription of usage where land between the high and low water mark might belong to a subject. Is it still so?
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Mark R
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Mark R »

Wenley wrote:As I understand it, the general principle in England is that the soil of the sea and shore where water ebbs and flows and of the lands below high water mark are the Crown's property. There are however, exceptions by grant or prescription of usage where land between the high and low water mark might belong to a subject. Is it still so?
Yep.
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Seadog
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Seadog »

I am not sure this is rubbish (from memory + I grew up on this bit of coast) - the access below HW was part of Magna Carta - but Beaulieu Abbey estate had rights down to low water that pre-dated this and held on to them. When the Abbey land was sold off by Henry VIII the rights went with it - this is why the estate owns the bed of the Beaulieu river even though it is tidal and can thus charge not only for mooring boats but also anchoring (the estate launch is very quick to roll up and take your money when in a yacht (never bothered me in a kayak though). In addition some of the old Abbey farms owned forshore and rights went with them when split up from main estate, and have maintained this right to present day - main stretch is between Lepe and Calshot (Eaglehurst etc) and also between Beaulieu and Lymington rivers. There are specific public rights of way in specific places (inclkuding public launching areas) look for public roads and footpaths that run from tarmac roads down to shore. This is not all bad becasue there is one delightful spot where I have launched, eaten lunch, and people have even cooked christmas dinner on a BBQ - that was in danger of getting taken over by Jet Skis - the owner of that stretch of shore allows everyone else through but has banned them.

Sorry for the history lesson (and this is from memory) but it is one of the historical exceptions to the normal rules.
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Wenley
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Wenley »

Mark R.:
Yep.
Ahh.

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jcox
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by jcox »

These sort of things are managed by the Crown Estate. For each parcel there is a managing agent. The one time I had to look up something, I found the managing agent helpful. It's a bit of a mission, but starting at http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/home.htm you should be able to find the managing agent for the bit of interest and then contact them and ask.

But in general, as others have noted, the intertidal bit isnt privately owned, but there are some restrictions.

(As an aside, Woolacombe, Croyde and Saunton beaches in North Devon fall into this category, this allows the managing agents to say what does and what doesnt occur on the exposed sands, and does actually allow them to ban kite buggies and the like. Once the sea covers it though, they lose jurisdiction and, AFAIK, it comes under the MCA.)
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Nick P »

jcox wrote:
(As an aside, Woolacombe, Croyde and Saunton beaches in North Devon fall into this category, this allows the managing agents to say what does and what doesnt occur on the exposed sands, and does actually allow them to ban kite buggies and the like. Once the sea covers it though, they lose jurisdiction and, AFAIK, it comes under the MCA.)

Similar thing on the main beach at East Looe, Cornwall. Exposed beach is 'controlled' by East Looe Town Trust who ban dogs and glass bottles. When the tide comes in, the same area (within 500yard radius from the pier) comes under the jurisdiction of the Harbour Authority, so in effect, ownership changes twice daily.

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Yakdiver
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Yakdiver »

There is a private beach between Calshot and Lepe beach (solent) it belongs to the Drummond family called Cadland Estate
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adrian j pullin
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by adrian j pullin »

There was some political discussion on this a little while ago. For example, from April 2006:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/334 ... aches.html

I do not know how far this got, though.
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Mark Steel
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Mark Steel »

Not exactly sure were it was as it was, as it was an unexpected stop, looking at the map it may have been in the region of Thorns beach, it was before the Beaulieau river, it was a big wooden house with a rib on a trailer on the beach, you would think that someone who enjoys the sea would be a bit less of an... please feel free to add your own word. well not going to have any probs this weekend camping at corfe castle paddling out of Kimmeridge and drinking in the Greyhound, spot on

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scotty
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by scotty »

There are several big houses like that along there like this one.
Image
One of the ones close to a row of metal pylons has a rib with the wheels built in/on looks wierd driving through the shallows.

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Mark R
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Mark R »

Mark Steel wrote:camping at corfe castle paddling out of Kimmeridge and drinking in the Greyhound, spot on
Ah, the 'Nuts in May' experience.

I live just up the street from the Greyhound, but will not be In Residence this weekend.
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ChrisS
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by ChrisS »

While some beaches may be privately owned I'm pretty sure seafarers have the right to land anywhere on the coast, privately owned or not, and also to make their way across private land from their landing place to a highway. Unfortunately I can't find chapter and verse on it.

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ChrisS
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by ChrisS »

The public has a right to navigate in tidal waters (ie the sea and tidal navigable rivers), and no grant of the soil can interfere with this. They also have ancillary rights, such as anchoring, that are necessary to navigation: Gann v Free Fishers of Whitstable (1865) 11 English Reports 1305. The right of navigation is not suspended when the tide is out, and a vessel may ground in order to continue a voyage on the next tide: Colchester Corporation v Brooke (1845) 115 English Reports 518. But the right of navigation is different from a right of way over land, because vessels are not obliged to follow a defined course: Evans v Godber [1974] 1 Weekly Law Reports 1317. On the other hand, navigation requires planned movement from one place to another for the purpose of transporting persons or cargo, and does not include "messing about in boats": Curtis v Wild [1991] 4 All England Reports 172; Steedman v Scofield [1992] 2 Lloyds Law Reports 163.
When challenged on a privately owned beach, just go and sit in your boat - then you can say you are in a grounded vessel waiting to continue your voyage on the next tide!

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Adrian Cooper »

scotty wrote:I cant think where you would be,there are salt pans and mud flats east of keyhaven,there are no landing signs for nesting birds on mud flats either side of Lymington river,
Sorry, but I love the way language can be so imprecise. When you first read it, you know what it means but then you hesitate and wonder how the birds are going to read the signs. :-)

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Yakdiver
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Re: PRIVATE BEACH

Post by Yakdiver »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
scotty wrote:I cant think where you would be,there are salt pans and mud flats east of keyhaven,there are no landing signs for nesting birds on mud flats either side of Lymington river,
Sorry, but I love the way language can be so imprecise. When you first read it, you know what it means but then you hesitate and wonder how the birds are going to read the signs. :-)
I think it is a bit of a tweet
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