Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

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EdSmith
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Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by EdSmith » Thu May 06, 2010 11:04 pm

Has anyone replaced the standard wheels on the C-tug, with smaller diameter ones, and if so where did you get them?

I have the good fortune of owning an Alaw Bach and the standard wheels won't fit through the hatches. With careful packing for a 4 -5 day trip I have space for the wheels inside the hatches, so would prefer not to have to carry them on deck. I could put them infront of the foot plate, but don't want the hassle of disassembling the cockpit fittings to stow or get at them. Smaller diameter wheels thus seam a possible solution.

I've done a fair amount of web searching and drawn a blank, so am wondering if someone here has had this problem and found a solution.

With thanks in advance
Ed

Graham T
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Graham T » Fri May 07, 2010 7:22 am

I have squeesed them through SKUK hatches. i'm surprised the Rockpool ones are smaller

Gordon A
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Gordon A » Fri May 07, 2010 8:14 am

Is it possible to deflate slightly & carry a hand pump?

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Fri May 07, 2010 8:29 am

Hello Ed, the Ctug with big wheels is a really great trolley but the wheels definitely don't fit in an Alaw Bach hatch. The Karitek and Eckla trolleys can be fitted with small wheels so I expect you will be able to get some somewhere. If you do you will find that the usefulness of the trolley will be seriously restricted to tarmac and ferry decks. Neither a Karitek nor Eckla trolley with small wheels made the portage across a non tarmac road at Tarbet Jura (non 4x4 cars with decent ground clearance can get across) but with big wheels, Karitek and KCS trolleys made it across with no bother. If my daughter and I are on day trips in my Nordkapp LV and her Alaw Bach and we take trolleys, I take the wheels she takes the frames. If we are away for an overnight, we both take Karitek trolley bags and strap them on the rear deck. I have never noticed any handling problem caused by this and the advantage of the full size wheels is just so great.

Some of these plastic hub wheels have inner tubes so you could deflate them then pump them up again. The ones I have are tube less and if you deflate them enough to get them in, the seal round the wheel rim breaks. To reinflate them you then need a garage high pressure air line.

Douglas

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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by John N » Fri May 07, 2010 11:00 am

Our club purchased two of these the other day. Before we did so I contacted the manufacturer to see if there was any difference between the orange wheeled versions and the green. There isn't. It seems the orange ones are manufactured for distribution by Johnson Outdoors, the UK distributor. I suggestted they might consider making a medium sized one to specifically suit a sea kayak rather than a S.O.T. or canoe but have not heard back from them yet.

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Fri May 07, 2010 11:06 am

Hello John, both the orange and green ones suit sea kayaks extremely well, and I would not thank you for one with smaller wheels. The full size wheels fit my oval hatches very well. I suspect that the wheels and tyres are manufactured by a separate company that sells them for lots of uses and all the trolley manufacturers buy them in. I have never seen anything with a wheel size intermediate between the large and the small wheels.

Douglas

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MePower
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by MePower » Fri May 07, 2010 11:13 am

If you deflate the tyres to fit the hatch, one of those small bike pumps wouldnt take up too much room, or even the co2 version. To be honest, i've never pumped up the tyres on my c tug since i bought it last year,(lazy boy) they are quite flat in fact, yet the tyres are robust enough to look like they are inflated, with no real rolling issues. Either that, or i'm getting really big arms!

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maryinoxford
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by maryinoxford » Fri May 07, 2010 11:44 am

German makers Zoelzer have an interesting option where you have a choice of wheel types for some of their trolleys:

Image

Some are air-filled and some are foam. Pick the kind that suits your purpose.
Not in Oxford any more...

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Jim
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Jim » Fri May 07, 2010 12:22 pm

I assume they are just plain plastic bearings (i.e. holes) in the hubs?
If so measure your axle diameter (if you don't have a calliper wrape a tape or bit of string round and divide the circumference by PI) and hub width and then head down to your local Machine Mart (or try their website if you aren't close to one) and check out their selection of plastic wheels. There may be one that will fit just nicely.
Other places to try are trailer and caravan suppliers - you may just find a jockey wheel that will fit, maybe not a light plastic one though.

I'm not sure the axle size on my Eckla kayak trolley, but the canoe trolley is 20mm (and the hub holes well oversized) - for our cross Scotland trip a couple of years ago I used barrow wheels from my old kite buggy with 20mm ball bearings - nice and smooth and at 16" diameter were OK off road. There wasn't enough width to the axle to fit a set of 21" diameter buggy wheels, not even 'bigfoot light', never mind 'full bigfoot', 'eurotrax' or my massively wide 'beach racers' on the wide assymetric rims (that don't work nearly as well as eurotax).

If the axle is much smaller than 20mm you might find mountainboard wheels that will fit (with bearings), however these seem to be ridiculously expensive, and rarely listed with full specifications so you can choose the right ones.

Jim

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by TechnoEngineer » Fri May 07, 2010 6:17 pm

Why not mount the wheels on deck with some rope, or behind your seat in the cockpit? You could use the spare room in the hatches for something else....
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Fri May 07, 2010 8:39 pm

I have two KCS trolleys one from 2002 and one from 2004. The one from 2004 has tubed tyres the 2002 is tubeless.The recommended pressure for the tubeless and tubed large wheels on the KCS trolley (Karitek and CTug are the same) is 18PSI. To get them to fit in a round Rockpool hatch you need to drop the pressure to 3PSI. If you use it at that pressure the rolling resistance is higher and there is a risk that the tyre will come off the rim, this happened to Tony on our last portage. Blowing it back up is hard work with a hand pump (you need an old fashioned one with a hose connector) a real faff, I gave up and used the electric pump I keep in the car.

As I said above there is no problem having them on deck.

Douglas

EdSmith
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by EdSmith » Fri May 07, 2010 9:29 pm

Thanks to all for the responses, luckily I was given the c-tug (after rude hints from myself it hads to be said). I like the good, solid design and easy ultra-rapid assembly. That would be ruined by deflating the tyres and then using a hand pump....and at the wrong time of year the midgies would enjoy a banquet.

Finding smaller wheels would be nice for packing the trolley to enable easier 'Calmac escapes' when the weather turns unexpectedly fickle. For rough 'tarbets' I can see that leaving the supplied wheels behind might rapidly result in self-loathing.

If anyone is unlucky enough to lose a c-tug wheel you can readily find identical ones with a quick web search. Finding smaller diamater wheels with the appropriate axle diameter and hub-width has proved fruitless so far on the web . C-tug have no intention of making smaller wheels, and I can see thier point. They have a very capable product so why down grade it.............thier tongue-in-cheek irreverant solution was to 'hack-saw the alaw' - it might rhyme but I'm not going that far!

My partner is gleefully pointing out that she can fit the wheels infront of her foot pegs, so I might just have to release ownership, or accept back-deck strapping.

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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Owen » Fri May 07, 2010 9:31 pm

I've also carried my trolly on the back deck, did it for the portage across Jura.

Image

It didn't have much noticeable effect on the boats handling buts it was in the way a bit. Not sure I could have rolled with it on there, but then again I don't think I could have capsized that old kayak fully loaded. If you can get it in behind your footplate I would have thought that would be the ideal place to put it. I suspose it depends on how easy your trolly is to assemble.

Big Ade
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Big Ade » Sat May 08, 2010 4:52 pm

When I had footrests in the boat, a P&H Capella, I cable tied some plastic hooks to the bars that go along the hull sides.
I then found an old stuff bag with a strap on the outside and bungied through this to the hooks on the footrests.
The wheels sat there quite well and could be got out easilly.
Sorry, no photos because I've moved the bulkhead now and the wheels sit in a special mudbag.

My Elka wheels go through my round Kayjaksport hatches.
Have you tried putting each wheel in two loose shopping bags and shoving the ensemble through?
Sometimes the plastic bags provide a bit of lubrication.
Can you post a link to a photo of your trolley in case I need to edit out a foot in mouth?

guy
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by guy » Sun May 09, 2010 6:56 am

You don't need smaller wheels
you need smaller tyres
Harolds tyres in penrith had some in stock
but your local tyre place should be able to get some

search the forum I posted a picture a while back

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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by John N » Sun May 09, 2010 8:22 am

Douglas, I wasn't thinking so much of smaller wheels, as the complete design in 0.75 scale (or less) perhaps, available as an alternative rather than a replacement. Something between the 'fullsize' trolleys and the miniscule SKUK wheels that I have at the moment. The only 'downside' I can see with the C-TUG is that we have bought them as club equipment so wear and tear is likely to be in excess of personally owned equipment - but that's true of most club equipment.

EdSmith
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by EdSmith » Sun May 09, 2010 10:29 am

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... lit=+tyres

Bingo. Can I be cheeky and ask if you could post the specs of your new tyres, as written on the sidewalls.

Now all I have to hope is that I'm not passed on a portage by a full sized c-tug owner complete with a wry smile!

Many thanks
Ed

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delphinidae
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by delphinidae » Sun May 09, 2010 11:23 am

Quick question about hub hole diameter versus tube/axle diameter...

I'm using the wheels from the Ekla trolley (which I despise; I had to buy genuine stainless clips/pin and bolts for it because the ones that came with it where zinc plated 8.8 steel ones) as part of DIY trolley build, but the hub holes are slightly wider than the axle I've got (20mm versus 19mm or 3/4 inch). Will this be a problem?

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Sun May 09, 2010 1:28 pm

I doubt it, these plastic bushes wear anyway. There is quite a bit more play than that in my 2002 KCS trolley but with no effect on performance or functionality.

Douglas

guy
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by guy » Mon May 10, 2010 7:12 am

Sorry I am not able to read the tyre size
The trolly is on a container ship heading to NZ

If I recall the old tyres were 4 Inch and the new ones were 2 inch
Good luck. Guy

coldwind
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by coldwind » Thu May 25, 2017 9:10 pm

I came across this ancient thread a couple of weeks ago. I have recently bought a Karma RG and with a nine inch hatch and I faced the same problem with the ctug wheels. It cost me just over £30 with delivery but I sourced 220 mm neumatic wheels with the 1 inch bore and there is only about 4mm of play on the spindle. Nylon washers make it perfect but aren't really needed. The wheels are available on line at "rosscastors.co.uk". £30 is a bit on the steep side for wheels but the Ctug trolley, in my opinion, is excellent and there certainly isn't anything that comes close for around the £30 mark

Chris Bolton
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Chris Bolton » Thu May 25, 2017 9:39 pm

I either missed this thread first time round or didn't have a C-Tug at that time. I bought some smaller wheels for use rolling on and off ferries. The bore is no problem, but the wheels only occupy half the length of the axle, so I made some spacers from short lengths of plastic pipe. The shorter bearing length means that the friction heat is concentrated into a shorter length, and I melted the surface of the axles. Beware!

I fixed the axles by reducing the diameter of the plastic and sleeving them with alloy tube. They still overheated, and I had to slow down or pour water on them on longer pulls - I've now realised they are better off without the spacers, so that the wheels can run on different parts of the axle and spread the heat and (probably more important) the exposed alloy tube can dissipate it faster.

I will explore Ross Castors - which model number did you get, coldwind? Is it PW-250-4-25.4-76?

coldwind
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by coldwind » Mon May 29, 2017 5:34 pm

Chris , yes that's the ones. I use a nylon washer on each axle but there's very little play without. Andy

Chris Bolton
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Re: Smaller wheels for C-Tug Trolley?

Post by Chris Bolton » Mon May 29, 2017 6:39 pm

Thanks Andy, I've ordered some.

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