Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
Post Reply
User avatar
Freek
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Freek »

Image

Greenland T(ouring)



LENGTH 545 cm (17’10”)
WIDTH 53 cm (21”)
CAPACITY Approx. 135 kg (298 lbs)
COCKPIT 82x45 cm (32¼”x17¾”)
WEIGHT Fiberglass: 23-25 kg (42-46 lbs)
Carbon/aramide: 22-24 kg (40-44 lbs)
Semi-carbon: 17-19 kg (33-35 lbs)
STORAGE
Front: round hatch 24 cm (10”)
Day hatch: 15 cm (6’’)
Rear: oval hatch 44x26 cm (17”x10¼’’)

Retractable skeg

Image

Andybhoy
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Andybhoy »

Can I ask a couple of questions:

What is the diffference between greenland sea kayaks and regular sea kayaks? What are the pros and cons of each?

On observing the picture above - I notice a lack of deck line - where would you secure the splits.....

Cheers

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by MikeB »

Andybhoy wrote:Can I ask a couple of questions:

What is the diffference between greenland sea kayaks and regular sea kayaks? What are the pros and cons of each?
Many of the modern sea kayaks originated from Greenland Kayaks - follow my sig link and take a look at Duncan Winning's article on the history of modern kayaks, and the Nordkapp article in the Almanac and the various links from it.

I'd suggest that "today", there is a trend to describing the likes of the Tahe as a (pure) Greenalnd boat whereas all the offshoots of the original "Taylor" kayak have grown in volumn to provide the ability to tour, something the original G/land boats weren't intended to do.

So there's the big difference

Again, today's G/land boats seem to be used in large part for things like rolling but I'd suggest that's a more modern development of the genre.

On observing the picture above - I notice a lack of deck line - where would you secure the splits.....

Cheers
More to the point, there's no toggles and the deck-line isn't long enough. Rescuing that thing wouldn't be fun.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Ceegee »

MikeB wrote:I'd suggest that "today", there is a trend to describing the likes of the Tahe as a (pure) Greenalnd boat whereas all the offshoots of the original "Taylor" kayak have grown in volumn to provide the ability to tour, something the original G/land boats weren't intended to do.

So there's the big difference

Again, today's G/land boats seem to be used in large part for things like rolling but I'd suggest that's a more modern development of the genre.
Can't say I agree with you entirely Mike. We have a couple of Waterfield Qaanaaqs (17' long and 18-1/2" wide) and they are pure Greenland rolling boats. For Niamh it is fine for extended trips, but then she is (still) under 5' and 7 stone! We tried a Tahe Greenlander out last week, and they are still a pretty tight fit and true to the origins. A local guy here bought one a few months ago, has been out half a dozen times and is selling it because it is not suitable for day, let alone extended trips (surprise there).Image

IMO the Qaanaaq, Tahe and recently announced Sea Pearl are in fact composite replicas of SOF boats as you would build to traditional Greenland style, but of course to the anthropomorphic dimensions of an "average" (male) European paddler. They retain most of the traditional design elements associated with SOF's i.e. extended raked stem and stern, low angle base around the keelson, definite chines with ~70deg slope on the gunwale, flat, almost convex rear deck, and very flat forward deck near the bow. IMO most people buy these to practice greenland-style rolling and technique. As such the deckline layout reflects tradition, although we added full side lines and toggles for extended tripping and going off-shore.
Image


Steve

Edit: PS. where would you secure the splits..... you don't - the forward deck loop often has an antler or bone ball for "rolling" the end of the storm paddle under or holding the main paddle. The other end is secured under the deck line at the Masik (i.e. nearest the cockpit), where you can tuck the throwing stick or norsaq too - Greenland paddles would not normally be split. It works BTW.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

Andybhoy
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Andybhoy »

Cheers for the feedback guys.

Mike - I read the link, interesting stuff. Us Scots, for a small country we've had an influence on so much!

Sort of wetted my appetite to read more on kayak design as it's something I know very little about.

I'm looking to upgrade kayak over the next year or so. I had a glancing look at this boat on brookbank:

http://www.canoesandkayaks.co.uk/produc ... ahe_Marine

This boat appears to be more of a regular sea kayak with the addition of toggles and more deck line but again, more deck lines would need to be added to carry splits. In any case I'd prefer a plastic type just now and from the article you recommended I started looking at Valley boats. The aquanaut HV appeals to me as I'm a bigger paddler; it looks to be a good size, and it's got great reviews..

User avatar
Mikebelluk
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:28 pm
Location: Merseyside
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Mikebelluk »

The Aquanaut HV RM is a fine boat,but it is heavy, and best suited to touring.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by MikeB »

Andybhoy wrote: In any case I'd prefer a plastic type just now and from the article you recommended I started looking at Valley boats. The aquanaut HV appeals to me as I'm a bigger paddler; it looks to be a good size, and it's got great reviews..
As another possible, the P&H Scorpio is getting good feedback - as with all boat choices though, try, try, try and then try some more. It's all about what fits and is comfortable as much as choosing a boat which is appropriate to the use you plan to put it too.

It's been said many times "here" that the final choice is often quite different from the original choice based on stats, reviews and similar research.

"Bigger paddler" is of course relative, but as one of them I've yet to find anything I'd want to replace my Quest with. There are other big boats I fit in - none of which are comfy (for me).

Mike

DominiqueS
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by DominiqueS »

there is a trend to describing the likes of the Tahe as a (pure) Greenland boat
Commercialization and marketing at work... Given the rising interest for all things Greenland, manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon, marketing gets to work, and the tactless appropriation for profit of an heritage begins.

But all these commercial products will always suffer from lacking one essential characteristic that all real Greenland tools had: made to your own measure. While shapes can be imitated (and quite successfully in the case of the Tahe), how can "one or two sizes fit all" be ever the same as a boat or a paddle made to your very own dimensions?

To use a car comparison: the new Mini may be a good car and look like the old one, but for those who drove the old one (I had one) it still does not feel, and so is not, the same as the old one.

So pure Greenland? Certainly not, that would be a skin on frame to start with. Greenland-style? More like it.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Ceegee »

DominiqueS wrote: Commercialization and marketing at work...
Hi Dominique - don't you think it might just be that there is a demand from paddlers.

Not everyone has the time, ability or facilities to build a SOF afterall. I for one would love to, but in the meantime, I appreciate having a light, small low-maintenance alternative I can throw on the car roof and nip down to the bay or lake for a hour's play rolling.

Lets face it, for years the only "Greenland replica" (I prefer that to Greenland-style, which could include some of the standard offerings from Valley, NDK etc.) available was the Waterfield - with ONE importer into Europe it was/is rare as hen's teeth. Then Rockpool came out with the "Underground" - 6 built in total I believe? Let's face it, Mike only has so many hours in the day to build all the Alaw's the world demands! The Tahe is the first European offering, and now Björn Thomasson (Scandinavia's Chris Cunningham?) who is hardly a big multinational is going to offer a composite version of his SOF.

Even the big manufacturers like Valley and NDK are (relatively) small owner-run businesses. And let's face it, producunbg a design, plug and mould for what is likely to be a limited production run is a BIG commitment for any manufacturer. It's not as if a multinational like Nike is "flooding" the market with a hard-sell sports product made in PRC. IMO it will be a long time before Greenland replicas are offered like SOTs in PE at Walmart, Lidl, Aldi etc. for $199!

As to the authenticity of the experience:
Björn Thomasson wrote: Finally I got a chance to test the new Qaanaq 512. And to sum it up – it has been a long time since I had so much fun, and I have for the first time been seriously tempted to own something else than a wooden kayak. Compared to my little black kayak the Qaanaaq, with its shorter waterline length and better secondary stability, is slightly easier to turn and control. My kayak is faster with half a meter more length. Rolling and bracing is even. The Qaanaaq has more room for feet and legs, which I dislike but most paddlers would appreciate. At last – a real greenland kayak to buy.
;-) Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

DominiqueS
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by DominiqueS »

Steve, I guess Bjorn, as designer of Greenland-style boats, illustrates well my concern about inappropriate claims when made for marketing purposes when he says:"At last – a real greenland kayak to buy". The Qaanaaq is not a "real Greenland" kayak, it is a Greenland look-alike adaptation that tries to reproduce, successfully it looks like, the feel of a Greenland kayak (which is what Bjorn might in fact have meant). Nothing wrong with that, but such kayaks are not the "real" thing. I would argue these kayaks belong to the same category as the Anas, especially the early Anas, adaptations.

By the way, Water Field does it properly by classifying the Qaanaaq as "Greenland Style" on their website:
http://www.wfkayaks.com/products/

Regarding Greenland "style" versus "replica", it is semantics but the accepted meaning of "replica" being "an exact copy", the word does not really qualify here. So "style" is still better.

As for offering interesting boats to paddle to more people, so much the better, and it is absolutely great. Last thing we need is mass offerings of standardized (read: dumbed down) products by mass marketers. Just let not make or encourage dubious claims, and describe these kayaks for what they are: excellent and affordable modern adaptations (or interpretations) of ancient designs...

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Ceegee »

Hi Dominique,

I don't think Bjorn was "marketing" the Qaanaaq. The people at Orust just lent him one, and he was impressed enough by it's similarity to his own SOF's to write a few positive words.

In other respects, I'd argue that EVERY (British Style, i.e. not Swedeform etc.) sea kayak is Greenland inspired. As such I can see four categories emerging here:

1. Greenland Inspired (virtually all sea kayaks)
2. Greenland Style (the hard-chined, narrow beam versions from the above, e.g. the Anas Acuta)
3. Greenland Replicas (actual Greenland boats per shape, dimensions, built in modern materials, e.g. the Qaanaaq)
4. Greenland Reproductions (SOF's)

oh, and...

5. Greenland Kayaks (built in Greenland and perhaps paddled by a Greenlander, or in Museums)

Perhaps "Replica" isn't the right word, but they are closer than "style" or "inspired".

Maybe we are going off-topic here? If you want to PM me, we can continue this "argument" (friendly discussion) seperately?

Best regards, Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by MikeB »

I think a trick is being missed here. Someone needs to patent the term "Greenland Kayak" and/or get EU protection in much the same way as Campagne and Arbroath smokies.

There is no Holy Grail of kayaking, there is only personal preference and perception aligned to design concepts which may (or may not) work well in the hands of a variety of padders of differing abilities, using them in varying circumstances and for diverse purposes.

The original G/land boats were never intended for journeying, yet many of us now want to use a G/land inspired boat for jsut that purpose. Yes, the boats evolved over thousands of years, but according to either Ken Taylor or Duncan Winning (can't recall who), those modern versions of G/land boats being built in G/land using traditional G/land techniques now quite often have a rounded hull form rather than the "traditional" hard chines we associate with these craft in their original form.

Why? Apparantly because the ribs are now being made using scrap plastic instead of wood, as the builders are just doing what their ancestors did, and are adapting to what's available. The plastic doesn't hold the hard bend needed to mimic the same effect using wood.

The key word is "origin" - a modern car has it's origins in the Model T Ford or beyond.

Mike.

DominiqueS
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by DominiqueS »

Steve, there is no point in discussing this ad nauseam, in the end it would be silly. At least we agree that kayaks under (2) and (3) are not the same as kayaks under (5), which was my original point, so logically should not be claimed to be the same.

But if you can refer me to an actual Greenland kayak that has the same dimensions (hull shape, external dimensions, decks height, cockpit size and location, etc) as the Tahe or any similarly "Greenland inspired" kayak, please by all means let me know and i will happily admit being wrong.

Beyond semantics, what drove me to post is this: that the general interest in all things Greenland kayaking is increasing is very nice to see, and I know it pleases Greenlanders to see their ancient culture being rediscovered and appreciated for its spectacular achievements. But as outsiders, we should have the tact to respect what belongs to them, not appropriate their names and identities, and recognize when we are inspired by them.
Last edited by DominiqueS on Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ian.miller
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:47 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by ian.miller »

Quite right Mike B. few if any of us will ever need to spear seals from our boats and I suspect the majority of Greenlanders are the same. I was at a lecture some years ago where the speaker recalled paddling the Greenland West coast with a group and they found themselves being filmed by a passing local family who looked at them in amazement as they went past in a workboat with a large outboard. A friend paddling the East coast this year says the locals regarded them as a bit odd and a year or two back some friends skiing in Svalbard were continualy asked why they didn't just hire skidoos! The fact is that that these folks clearly find it easy to give up the old habits if an easier way of doing things presents itself. I bet they don't sit at home posting on the internet about the good old days.

DominiqueS
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by DominiqueS »

MikeB got it, and it has nothing to do with reminiscing about the good old days. To belabor the point one last time with a very Scottish analogy:

Whatever the evolution and quality of today's whiskies, if I were to start fermenting and distilling malt in my backyard in Canada (obviously a whisky, right?) and then call my product “Scotch”, I would then have a “Scotch whisky” to sell. And if I did a good job for today's palates, some might even end up claiming that it is a "true Scotch Whisky".

Would that be right? That’s all.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Ceegee »

DominiqueS wrote:That’s all
er, not quite, at the risk of further hijacking this thread (but at least I've actually paddled the Tahe Greenlander), I'll point out for the record:

1. I take none of the above particularly seriously, neither, I doubt do many Greenanders. I just like paddling long, thin, pointy (yellow!) boats which I can tip upsidedown and back again at will.Image

2. With due apologies to MikeB and Bonny Scotland, WE invented it FIRST, uisce beatha that is, so you can call it Scotch, but not Scotch whiskey. That would make Canadian w... uhhh, just Canadian (on the rocks?)

3. I'll take a dram of Talisker over Bushmills any day. Don't even talk to me about Paddy's or Jamesons!

4. The Arabs invented distillation (double AND triple) so the Scots and Irish are as guilty of ripping of Osama B's heritage as Messers Winning, Taylor and Thommason are the Greenlanders'. I don't think the Taliban would get very excited about that aspect of their inventive forebears.

Anyhow, enough fun for now, an uisce calls,

Slan Leat agus go raibh maith agat, Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 8127
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:44 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by MikeB »

Ceegee wrote:2. With due apologies to MikeB and Bonny Scotland, WE invented it FIRST, uisce beatha that is, so you can call it Scotch, but not Scotch whiskey. That would make Canadian w... uhhh, just Canadian (on the rocks?)
No need to apologise whatsoever. As a fellow Irishman (Co Cork - and still holding an Irish Passport) I've always known where the water of life originated from.

;-)

Mike.

DominiqueS
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by DominiqueS »

Ceegee, it might be cultural, but there are modern sensitivities that did not apply before that seem to be missed here (by the way, do you have a commercial interest in the Tahe? That would change the perspective). But you are right in saying that In the end it is for Greenlanders to say, like it was for the Inuits to say when they confronted what was then Inuit kayaks and is now Tiderace kayaks. They would not have had a chance a century ago, and I would argue it's fairer now.
but at least I've actually paddled the Tahe Greenlander
Never assume! As you ask, when I paddled it in Michigan I found the boat quite nice to paddle, and quite an easy roller. It must be handled delicately though, its build seems quite thin which makes the gelcoat easily damaged from what was discussed with owners when i tried it (they mentioned a couple stories of gelcoat flaking). Could be the price to pay for having a light boat. Having had the chance to paddle skin on frames, for me the Tahe remains an ersatz so would rather build a skin on frame than buy a Tahe - but that's me, and it's horses for courses.

By the way Ceegee, for fun, the challenge still stands : ... if you can refer me to an actual Greenland kayak that has the same dimensions (hull shape, external dimensions, decks height, cockpit size and location, etc) as the Tahe or any similarly "Greenland inspired" kayak, please by all means let me know and I will happily admit being wrong..

I'll leave it at that for this thread. Happy weekend!

tg
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:51 pm
Location: Pennyhole Bay

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by tg »

DominiqueS,

'Given the rising interest for all things Greenland, manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon'

The current trend for excrutiating debt is certainly epitomised in the Grenland (read Russian) economy. However with regard to paddling this particular type of generic they have been available to build and buy in the UK for well over thirty years. The Angmagssalik (Igldorsuuit?) boat was in production in the '70s albeit as an S&G. Having owned a couple of those I'd say the Tahe G. is pretty close. I'm with Ceegee to some degree I just like to paddle these kind of craft. I've got about 10kg max load above my weight in mine but it doesn't matter. I can carry my flask and sandwichs for the day and that's enough.

Having visitedt Canada (Vancover) I think that there is a real point to be made about touring. In the UK I reckon most paddles are day trips with extended tours saved for vacations. We just don't have the wilderness, not in the same way as North America, (or almost anywhere else on the planet when it comes to it).

The only Greenland boat is one made in Greenland: and it may well not be the shape we would wish or expect.

Now,.. where are those specs for the G.T.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Ceegee »

Sorry all, been away a week - work not paddling >:-(

MikeB - gettaway? Corkboy? CBC McCurtain St. myself, the missus is from Schull, west of Skibbereen, where we lived - but in Berlin for the moment :-( Slan!

Dominique, no probs, and sincerely, no offence to the inuit culture was ever intended. I've posts over on the German Seekajakforum http://www.seekajakforum.de/forum/read. ... #msg-37727 where I get flamed for saying people should say Inuit or Inuk and NOT the E-word! Also, I've no commercial interest in Tahe or any other manufacturer, I just like to paddle. Also, I wasn't presumuing you hadn't tried the TG, just pointing out that (with 20+ years paddling behind me) I consider myself in a reasonable position to say that the TG is pretty close to a "Greenland" experience. Tim seems to think so too. Quality wise? IMO not the best, but that is not the issue - the design is.

BTW, if you can refer me to an actual Greenland kayak that has the same dimensions .. - well yes actually, the half finished SOF my garage - 20" wide - my (middle-aged) hips plus two sets of knuckles, and 17'6" long (three arm spans). That is the POINT - they are anthropometric! Unless the argument is that if I'm not a Greenlander (of the right body size) it can't be a Greenland boat? I'd tread cautiously down the road that says only persons of a certain dimension/size/stature are entitled to consider themselves citizens and if a 6 foot 200lb Greenlander builds a boat then it can't be a Greenland boat and presumably he can't be a Greenlander.

Anyhow, re Tiderace, Aled did the decent thing, and renamed the company, and I've apologized here, and I think it is safe to say that most sea kayakers are admirers of Inuit/Nunavut/First Nations culture rather than detractors. 'Nuff said, lets all go paddling.

Steve xxx

P.S. My understanding is that "kayak" means man's/hunter's boat (same thing in Inuit culture?). Better start sharpening the harpoons (oh and get the girls ashore ASAP) - sorry, ONLY JOKING!
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

User avatar
Freek
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Tahe Marine Greenland T(ouring) model 2010

Post by Freek »

photo's taken today at kayakcentre Arjan Bloem in the Netherlands;

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Post Reply