Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

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yellofello
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Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by yellofello » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:40 pm

Hi

Need some advice. I am hopefully going to be taking delivery of Quest LV (from a well known instructor) in the next couple of months with a custom bulkhead fitted.

I need about 4 inches of foam to put in for the rest to be suitable for me. I have no problem with this, and am actually quite excited.

Can anyone recommend where I could get foam that I can cut to shape and what glue to use.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Cheers

PS watch out for my Alaw Bach and Quest coming up for same in a few weeks time.

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chris-uk
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by chris-uk » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:45 pm

I don't know where you'd get foam up your way, but most kayak shops should supply closed cell foam, which is what you need. Use Evostick Impact to glue it in.

Chris

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by nickcrowhurst » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:45 pm

Foam bulkheads:
http://www.knoydart.co.uk/display_acces ... ing&id=276

A couple of strips of industrial self-adhesive Velcro does it for me.

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Skerry Packer » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:19 pm

Just did the same job on my quest the other day having had the old one blow out of the cockpit on a return from Arisaig, so if anyone sees a lump of foam about front bulkhead size blowing about, it's mine. Knoydart sell 2" and 4" foam and will cut to a 2ft length which is what you will need, if you send a tracing of your bulkhead they will cut to fit. Costs about £10. I will now velcro the new one on as friends with longer legs sometimes use the boat and the foam has to be removed.
Gerry
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MikeB
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by MikeB » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:23 pm

Stirling canoes - their foam is denser than the Knoydart stuff. Mike.

Balgarvie
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Balgarvie » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:33 pm

Hi Paul - Hows that roll coming along ?
You'll get the foam you need from either Brookie or Stirling Canoes but phone them before going along since I believe they don't always have it in stock.
The foam block thats in Babs boat is jammed in, theres no glue involved and its sufficiently tight to have survived quite a few wet exits.
Shes also saying to be aware of the amount of space you'll lose by doing that - a wooden bar cut to fit over the foot pegs might achieve the same thing and still leave some storage space ?

Bill

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yellofello
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by yellofello » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:44 pm

Hi Bill

Thanks for that. Will give them a call.

Not worried about space in the cockpit. Never stored in there.

The only rolling so far has been trying to get out my bed this morning.

Take care, paddle safe and keep in touch. If you fancy a paddle, just shout.

P

av.surfer
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by av.surfer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:54 am

Swiming floats are a good cheap even free if you speak nice to your council pool attendent, you can stick them together and shape them as you like.

Matt

tg
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by tg » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:55 pm

Be wary of putting a timber bar in across your pegs or any other way. If you do make sure it is hinged and will easily swing back towards you. The scenario is this; with your new, super strong foot brace, the boat begins to pearl and you think 'I'll go for a loop', or pirouette, or whatever the 'en vogue' term is. The boat goes vertical; your feet slip past the bar and you capsize. Now your feet are trapped, your body is in the boat, you can't roll and you are inverted. Whoops! Best go for block foam.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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Robert Craig
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Robert Craig » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:52 pm

Tried the other day hot melt glue for sticking foam. Wonderful at sticking foam to foam, good for foam to polythene boat.

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corgimas
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by corgimas » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:14 pm

i added 9" of foam into my cockpit to create my foamed out bulkhead....But i did not glue or velcro anything in....It is all nice and tight because the outermost layer of minicel foam is just the tightest fit in against the hull and deck...I put in a piece of 1" wide flat webbing that runs behind that last layer so that i can remove it as needed

Also behind the outermost layer is a bunch of scraps....since the last one is quite tight it is holding the rest in....No way these are moving if the cockpit is full of water....

Hole at the top of the bulkhead is to hold my pump out of the way

Image
Last edited by corgimas on Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

smallbear
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by smallbear » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:19 pm

The wooden bar previously in my old Aquanaut HV was made for me by an experienced paddler who has paddled on white water for decades and on the sea for several years. He made it to swing forward but it was also attached at the very far end of my footpeg so it would not float off. It was made so that there was not sufficient room for feet to go above or below it and it would swing forward if you stuck your toes (or front of your boot) under it and pulled. He has used one for a long time and has made them for others and I haven't heard of any unfortunate happenings such as you describe. It also gave me enough room to store my pack of pans for camping so not wasting the space beyond my feet.
I can understand the point you make but have never heard of it happening, and if my Nordkapp LV had not been bought with a customised bulkhead including a large wodge of foam, I would most certainly have considered another wooden bar.

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chris-uk
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by chris-uk » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:28 pm

smallbear wrote:I can understand the point you make but have never heard of it happening...
I have, Kayak Surf contest back in the early '90s, guy got his feet wedged, breaking his ankles in the process, then had to be rescued and narrowly avoided drowning (as told to me by one of the contestants).

Chris

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by TechnoEngineer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:58 pm

Surely a big enough airbag behind a wooden plate would be enough to prevent your feet slipping behind it?

Do bear in mind that a sizeable piece of dense (Knoydart) foam can weigh in the order of 1kg.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

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chris-uk
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by chris-uk » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:05 pm

TechnoEngineer wrote:Surely a big enough airbag behind a wooden plate would be enough to prevent your feet slipping behind it?

Do bear in mind that a sizeable piece of dense (Knoydart) foam can weigh in the order of 1kg.
I do believe, though I wasn't there, that a rule was introduced, following this incident, that contestants had to have solid foam installed behind their footplates in order to pass scrutineering prior to competing. My info is second hand but comes from one of the other competitors at that event. Unfortunately I'm no longer in touch with the guy in question and so I can't get any more info,

Chris

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Peter M » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:02 pm

If using glue for fitting foam I have found that both hot gun glue and Evostick, show a white flag at the first sign of salt water. Use Bison contact adhesive or there is a suitable type of two part Bostick denoted by a number. A decent local Chandler should be able to advise you.

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chris-uk
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by chris-uk » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:02 am

Peter M wrote:If using glue for fitting foam I have found that both hot gun glue and Evostick, show a white flag at the first sign of salt water.
I'm surprised, I've used both and have never had any problems, even when using the hot glue on a plastic boat. of the two I prefer the evostick, though I'm very much in favour of Corgimas' method. I have built a whole seat/backrest assembly for one of my surf boats that uses no glue at all yet is strong enough to withstand 70mph winds on the roof of my car without even flinching. It has also been rolled in big surf without budging. You can certainly go glue-less if you cut the foam right.

Chris

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Canoe-Cowal » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:11 pm

corgimas wrote:I added 9" of foam into my cockpit to create my foamed out bulkhead....But I did not glue or velcro anything in....It is all nice and tight because the outermost layer of minicel foam is just the tightest fit in against the hull and deck...I put in a piece of 1" wide flat webbing that runs behind that last layer so that I can remove it as needed

Also behind the outermost layer is a bunch of scraps....since the last one is quite tight it is holding the rest in....No way these are moving if the cockpit is full of water....

Hole at the top of the bulkhead is to hold my pump out of the way

Image
Yello

Did the same as WsK on my Quest. 4" foam bought at Striling Canoes.

I cut a dranage hole at the bottom to let water run out from the back plus this airs the glass bulkhead to stop and dampness affecting the glass matting.

I also cut in two hols for MSR or Similar type fuel bottle and hence guese where I keep my stove fuel and Whisky if on the menu.

Trust this helps

J

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MikeB
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:47 pm

Canoe-Cowal wrote: I also cut in two hols for MSR or Similar type fuel bottle and hence guese where I keep my stove fuel and Whisky if on the menu.

Trust this helps

J
Great idea - as long as you dont mix the bottles up that is - -

Any pics??

Regs, Mike.

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by Canoe-Cowal » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Mike

Dead easy Fuel bottle RED and Wisky bottle Light Blue. I fuel leaks it only leaks into cockpit and can wash out.
The foam also acts to reduce volume if you end up having to self bale out the cockpit too.
Photos? Can send you them by e mail of you want or by mobile if I had your contact details as I fail to put things like pics on.
But its like WsK's and the holes are one over like and over and under shot gun

J

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by tg » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:56 pm

I also have used foam blocks successfully without glue. I am in the habit of keeping the better quality foams used for parcel deliveries in a bin bag in the shed. This way I have built up a stock and bits and pieces get used, particularly around the seat, all over my boats. I did recently make the mistake of buying a bespoke piece for a w/w kayak and cutting it to make a piece for forward bouyancy and extra deck strength for my sea kayak. It worked but was expensive. I am not sure if it's cheaper to buy sheets direct from manufactureres or stockists rather than kayak stores.

My old Snipe (f/glass) had a piece of flattened aluminium pole with a bolt through one end affixed to a f/glass step and a corresponding slot and bolt in the other, allowing the footrest to swing.

My S&G sea kayaks have had swinging wooden footbraces too and they work well.

I think that surfing incident in the nineties maybe what is in my memory too. But I certainly remember a story of a couple of guyes sledgeing a double down a hill in the snow. Of course they hit something and the guy in the front got completely wedged in.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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MikeB
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by MikeB » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:54 pm

Canoe-Cowal wrote:Mike

Dead easy Fuel bottle RED and Wisky bottle Light Blue. I fuel leaks it only leaks into cockpit and can wash out.
The foam also acts to reduce volume if you end up having to self bale out the cockpit too.
Photos? Can send you them by e mail of you want or by mobile if I had your contact details as I fail to put things like pics on.
But its like WsK's and the holes are one over like and over and under shot gun

J
Cheers - editor@ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk will get them to me - excellent idea and I'll add it to the "Outfitting" article in the Almanac! Regs, Mike.

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MikeB
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest

Post by MikeB » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:14 pm

tg wrote: My old Snipe (f/glass) had a piece of flattened aluminium pole with a bolt through one end affixed to a f/glass step and a corresponding slot and bolt in the other, allowing the footrest to swing.
As in the pics in this earier discussion I guess.

Image

Can't get them these days. It was a decent enough solution in truth. (That one should be on the left not the right).

Mike.

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by Canoe-Cowal » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:10 pm

Mike
Picies and info sent

J

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AndyC#2
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by AndyC#2 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:36 pm

Has anyone tried using a river boat footrest in a sea kayak?

I'm thinking of the footrest my old Jackson Fun 4 had - it's called a Happy Feet and is basically a bag divided into two compartments - one was full of polystyrene beads which you nestle your feet in and then suck the air from so that it becomes semi-solid and molded to your feet. Behind it was the other compartment which you pumped-up after you'd wiggled yourself into the boat to hold yourself in. The pumping-up bit is probably a bit unnecessary in a sea boat but they are extremely comfortable, even for a day squeezed into a dinky little boat. The only problem I could see would be getting it to stay-in after a capsize - the river boats have a central foam brace which (sometimes) holds it in.

If I still had my Jackson I'd give it a try, but I sold it a few years back :-(

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by nickcrowhurst » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:59 pm

AndyC#2 wrote:Has anyone tried using a river boat footrest in a sea kayak?
Four years ago I fitted my Rotobat's shaped foam and PE footrest on an alloy frame into my Capella RM. I used only one bolt each side so that the foam rotates to whatever the angle of the feet. Very comfortable.
Nick.

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PeterG
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by PeterG » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:09 pm

I use a strap system with the webbing conected to the forward footrest bolt to hold the foam in place. On long trips I can then take it out and fit my two 10" trolley wheels, safely strapped in place.

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MikeB
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:43 pm

"Canoe-Cowal's" cunning footrest / drinks cabinet.

Image

Image

Image

Added to the Outfitting Sea Kayaks article in the Almanac.

Nice work, thanks.

Mike.

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Ceegee
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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by Ceegee » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:35 pm

So where do you put your feet?????
MikeB wrote:"Canoe-Cowal's" cunning footrest / drinks cabinet.

Image

Image

Image

Added to the Outfitting Sea Kayaks article in the Almanac.

Nice work, thanks.

Mike.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Re: Suitable Foam and Glue For Footrest^

Post by Canoe-Cowal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:55 pm

CEEGEE

If you look at the chalk on the foot rest you can put the bottles one over each other or sisde by side I used the earth cable in the back ground as a bendable template of the hull and deck

In the quest the foot rests are still used and this was designed to reduce the volume in the cockpit of the boat,

If you use it as a footrest you would have to double up on thickness of the foam unless you have really long legs.

The foam can be cut to house any bottle or box.

My friend has a hinged box shaped into his Skerry that is a true foot rest and when that comes out it is a table and the box houses kitchen goodies. Now that is smart.

J

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