sit on sea kayak

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shiner
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sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:20 pm

I'm after a sit on sea kayak that i can use in a decent breeze (upto 30Knots) and a rough sea. I currently stand up paddle board and do downwinders but if the wifes at work i cant get a lift home! So i need a kayak i can paddle up into the wind then return to the same spot ready to collect kids from school. Do such things exist or is it only sit in kayaks that will do this.

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CaptainSensible
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by CaptainSensible » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:30 pm

They do exist - link - if you are referring to composite sit-on-tops that are a bit narrower and longer (and present less of a profile to the wind) than the plastic ones.

One of our members (skua) either paddles, sells, or actually makes the things, but I can't remember.

shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:42 pm

to be honest i was looking at a plastic one but as the only experiance i have with kayaks is my current bic tobago i'm open to ideas? what about the bic scapa or the malibu 4.4 ?

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CaptainSensible
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by CaptainSensible » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:22 pm

My experience on sit-on-tops is somewhat limited.

I've paddled a Bic Scapa and a Perception Freedom and quite liked them, and I know that the Scupper Pro (Ocean Kayaks) is a decent boat (and that their Prowler 15 is even better) from what their owners have told me.

However, I've never paddled a sit-on-top in a significant beam/cross sea/wind and I've no idea how they handle those conditions or what their paddlers should do (paddling into a headwind is easy if you are fit enough, but other wind & sea conditions require some skill as well).

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by TechnoEngineer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:31 pm

Carrying loads of weight inside a SOT can really help with feeling comfortable in rough conditions. However it makes the boat more effort to paddle and reduces the top speed.
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Lindisfarne
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by Lindisfarne » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:08 pm

I paddle a Kaskazi Dorado, they are one of the best sot's on the market. You can paddle along side most sit in's and match them stroke for stroke with the same amount of effort. The factory fit rudder sorts out your weather cocking and the low seating position,narrow beam and decent waterline length gives you a respectable forward speed. The Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro is the only plastic sot that comes near to them with a similar performance.



Neil.

shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:29 pm

[quote="Lindisfarne"]I paddle a Kaskazi Dorado, they are one of the best sot's on the market. You can paddle along side most sit in's and match them stroke for stroke with the same amount of effort. The factory fit rudder sorts out your weather cocking and the low seating position,narrow beam and decent waterline length gives you a respectable forward speed. The Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro is the only plastic sot that comes near to them with a similar performance.


The ocean kayak web site says the scupper pro is good for small to medium build paddlers but at 6'3 and 16 stone i dont think i can be classed as that.
The kaskazi dorado looks good, what sort of price am i looking at

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by cj » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:34 pm

Re ask your question on anglers afloat. Alot of different users and SOTs, every bit as enthusiastic as this site. http://anglersafloat.proboards.com/index.cgi?

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:35 pm

As i'm not racing or touring just 2-4 hour paddles all i want is something that i can paddle into a strong head wind then paddle home. tried my bic tobago on my own in 15mph wind but not really do able. There must be something out their for me?

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by CaptainSensible » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:54 pm

A Dorado won't leave you with much change from £1600.

An Ocean Kayaks Prowler Elite 4.5 will set you back £600-650 whereas a Prowler 15 (4.7 metres) will be almost £800

Wilderness Systems boats are worth considering too: LINK

shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:46 am

cj i did post on anglers afloat but got loads of abuse because i was going out in more than a force 3!!! no shit register and have a look!!!

Maybe my question should be what would be your max conditions you would safely use a sit on or sit in kayak in.

Thanks for the help so far.

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by briant » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:12 pm

Hi
I paddle a scupper pro and can vouch for its ability to handle some decent wind and sea states, probably only 2nd to a dorado as lindisfarne has already stated. if you have a look on anglers afloat you will probably sea some pics of the scupper pro in less than ideal conditions.

Best advice would be to get a hold of one so you can paddle it for a few hours. Oh and its one of the less expensive SOTs.

Cheers
Brian

Lindisfarne
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by Lindisfarne » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:15 pm

shiner wrote:cj I did post on anglers afloat but got loads of abuse because I was going out in more than a force 3!!! no shit register and have a look!!!

Maybe my question should be what would be your max conditions you would safely use a sit on or sit in kayak in.

Thanks for the help so far.

I did have a look at that thread and to be honest I think the majority are just concerned for your safety. A force 8 gale is not really a recomended wind strength to put to sea in for a pleasurable paddle. At that wind strength I would be in survival mode. I've been on the water for many years and wouldn't set sail at that strength in a sit in or a sit on top kayak. Just my humble opinion.....

Neil.

shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:27 am

briant wrote:Hi
I paddle a scupper pro and can vouch for its ability to handle some decent wind and sea states, probably only 2nd to a dorado as lindisfarne has already stated. if you have a look on anglers afloat you will probably sea some pics of the scupper pro in less than ideal conditions.

Best advice would be to get a hold of one so you can paddle it for a few hours. Oh and its one of the less expensive SOTs.

Cheers
Brian
cheers Brian what weight are you as their web page says for small to medium paddlers, i'm 6'3 and 16stone. I would demo a few but i dont think any shops will let me go out if its windy. I'm off all week so maybe i'll visit a few.
Lindisfarne wrote:
shiner wrote:cj I did post on anglers afloat but got loads of abuse because I was going out in more than a force 3!!! no shit register and have a look!!!

Maybe my question should be what would be your max conditions you would safely use a sit on or sit in kayak in.

Thanks for the help so far.

I did have a look at that thread and to be honest I think the majority are just concerned for your safety. A force 8 gale is not really a recomended wind strength to put to sea in for a pleasurable paddle. At that wind strength I would be in survival mode. I've been on the water for many years and wouldn't set sail at that strength in a sit in or a sit on top kayak. Just my humble opinion.....

Neil.
if calling me an idiot and sarcastic comments are being concerned for my safety i can think of better ways. all i can say is its easy for people to think they are mike tyson behind their computer screen its another thing face to face

briant
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by briant » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:10 am

Hi shiner

I'm a tad over 6' and around 95 kilos, the boat is 'loose' on me. I think you would fit ok but best to try. When I say its a good sea worthy boat I meant it would handle biggish waves and with thigh straps fitted the waves won't wash the boat away from under you. I would doubt whether it would be possible to paddle it against a 30 knot wind, I paddled mine against a 25 to 30 mph wind with 2knot current pushing against me aswell.......... I could move but only just, lindisfarne on the dorado paddled through with relative ease. Best to get a try with one.

Cheers

Brian

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by CaptainSensible » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:22 am

30 knots is pretty serious stuff; it's mid F7 on the Beaufort Scale.

I don't know that many sea kayakers who will go out in an F5 or F6 unless they absolutely have to.

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by Chris Bolton » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:56 pm

Look up "Tsunami Rangers" to see what sort of conditions SOTs can handle

http://site.netopia.com/tsunami/door/



And look up "Surf Ski" to see what the fastest types are capable of



Chris

PS - the site logged me out while I was writing this reply - never had that happen before?

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by soundoftheseagull » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:23 pm

Great clips those guys are mad as fish they certainly handle those SOT's
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by MikeB » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:59 pm

shiner wrote:I need a kayak I can paddle up into the wind then return to the same spot ready to collect kids from school. Do such things exist or is it only sit in kayaks that will do this.
You're going to be hard pushed to paddle into a F7 for any length of time, in or on anything.

Effect of Wind Retard on Paddling Speed (Beaufort)
0 = 3knts / F1 = 3knts / F2 = 2.5knts / F3 = 2knts / F4 = 1.5knts / F5 = 0.5knts / F6 = stationary

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shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:08 pm

may be i'm expecting to much out of a kayak, my garage is 17 foot long so a surf ski is out the question. At present a force 7 is my upper limit on my down wind paddle board but i have to rely on being picked up by someone. just wanted something to nut about on and get back to the same spot.

thanks for all the help, i'm even more puzzled now

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by CaptainSensible » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:05 pm

I'll try and de-puzzle you...

As a rule, kayakers/paddlers try to avoid paddling into the wind or against the tide if they can. A fit (not necessarily an athlete) person can paddle a sea kayak or a sit-on-top of similar proportions (plastic sit-on-tops are usually shorter and wider than a sea kayak = slower) at 4 knots, but (as MikeB pointed out) there comes a point when either the sea or the wind or a combination of both makes forward progress impossible.

So you'll be able to do what you want do when the conditions allow (not that paddling into an F4/5 for a couple of miles can be described as 'fun'), but not all of the time.

You'll need something with sails if you want to make progress against an F7.

shiner
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by shiner » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:51 pm

All i can say is thanks for all the advice, right having a read up i did not realise that sit in sea kayaks can track quite straight across the wind. My paddle board across the wind is shit, totally pointless but kayaks look good. what are perception sealions like? i used to be able to roll as i used to surfski but that was a few years ago now.

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Fast sit on sea kayak

Post by Selkie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:13 pm

I have been paddling SOT’s for nearly 30 years and tried just about all on the market including all those mentioned on this thread. As a keen sea kayaker I was always slightly disappointed with the performance of even the best SOT’s on the market…so I built by own from a Nordcap. With a good lap strap it works well and can be handled and rolled in the same way as a conventional kayak.

A few years ago Cobra Kayaks brought out the 18’ plastic Expedition. I have paddled this SOT around the IOW solo in a day and averaged 30 miles a day around Devon & Cornwall. Despite the narrow beam for a SOT it is very stable and easily keeps up with conventional sea kayaks. The Explorer is streets ahead of any other SOT in performance, but seldom mentioned as there are not many in the UK and at 18' they are a bit of a beast for fishermen without much kayak experience.

I am a a keen freediver and use the Expedition to explore the coast for good dive spots.

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by rec1551 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:05 pm

There is a 20ft(!) expedition sit on on ebay at the moment. It is called a Comanche and looks the business to me. I'll caveat this by saying I know absolutely nothing about the make, the seller or whether this type of kayak is a design cul-de-sac

I'm not sure about posting a link to ebay but if you search in kayaks recently listed you'll find it.

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by maryinoxford » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:15 pm

Interesting. Ebay item 250500105083
I see it's South African-made. I seem to recall that they have open-ocean racing in long skinny boats.
Not in Oxford any more...

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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by Selkie » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:01 pm

I have been paddling a Cobra Expedition 18’ x 24’’ with a rudder. The only plastic Sit on kayak I know off that easily keeps up with traditional sea kayaks. They are available in the UK at http://www.cobrakayaks.co.uk. Price is comparable to the Prowler, but a much faster and more seaworthy craft. It has surprisingly good initial stability comparable to the Ocean Kayak favourites, but really leaves all these behind with secondary stability making it a good rough water craft.

Just back from a paddle from Penzance to St Ives taking on the turbulent seas around Lands End. Three years ago, I paddled to the Scillies and back on the Cobra alongside 3 composite Nordcap sea kayaks; well proven expedition kayaks. At times they actually struggled to keep up with me.
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Re: sit on sea kayak

Post by Jersey Kayak » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:53 pm

30 knots is on the high side. Paddle with others and be well aware of the risks.

If things go wrong it will get serious very quickly.

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