Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)^

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chillipepper
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Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)^

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:41 pm

a pretty pointless post really but my new Tahe Greenland carbon arrived today, ooh,I nearly wet myself when I saw it,it's lovely! Pics and paddle report as soon as I get it on the water.

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maryinoxford
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by maryinoxford » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:49 pm

Do you mean one of these?
Image
Not in Oxford any more...

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:05 pm

ah, dammit,. my work firewall is blocking that pic URL. it's this:
Image

TaysideTom
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by TaysideTom » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:06 pm

It looks fabulous.

I tested a Tahe Reval on Saturday, which I then decided to buy (the kayak formerly known as Kaspian SK18, I believe). It's a nice boat, reasonably maneuverable for its length, handles well and brilliant value. It's lively but not horrendously tippy. Having tried a friend's Nordkapp recently, it seems not too far away from that. It's nowhere near as sexy as the Greenland boat, though.

The Greenland kayaking forum in the US had a recent discussion about the Tahe Greenlander:

http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/Greenla ... ead=132581
Last edited by TaysideTom on Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chris-uk
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chris-uk » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:06 pm

They are both the same, just different angles. One of the, dare I say it, sexiest boats around?!?

Chris

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:12 pm

yeah, a case of head rules heart for as long as it takes to find the credit card and then heart takes over (still benefiting from the single & no kids thing....)... can't wait to get it on the water.
It's the small cockpit version but I'm a lean (too many years cycle racing) 65kg and 5ft 9.Getting into it is rather like pulling on a sock,...

Nick P
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Nick P » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:18 pm

That boat is sea kayak porn !

I want one (but don't need it).

Nick

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chris-uk
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chris-uk » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:19 pm

Similar to this bad boy, which I'll build for myself one day...

Image

More details here...

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/kaya ... ER-17.html

Chris

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:32 pm

mmm, that's nice.I have a had a CLC brochure since living in Canada, I now have a double garage and wouldlike to build something... once all the work on the house is done...bit like painting the forth bridge...
anyway, Greenland - mine weighs 14.3kg, it comes with a little build certificate which is quite a nice touch.

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Jim
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Jim » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:54 pm

chillipepper wrote:It's the small cockpit version but I'm a lean (too many years cycle racing) 65kg and 5ft 9.Getting into it is rather like pulling on a sock,...
Just be careful if you have stopped racing, I have a friend who used to race and now he must be getting on for twice your weight.....
Still I'm in the same range as him and I prefer small cockpits if I can get in them :-)

I wonder if all chined boats look that sexy black, I have a notion I might have to experiment!

Jim

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:36 pm

lol, nope,still racing....

TaysideTom
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by TaysideTom » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:05 pm

I wonder if all chined boats look that sexy black, I have a notion I might have to experiment!
They certainly do:

Image

Image

johnb
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by johnb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:22 pm

So how much do people value aesthetics over practicality?... I'd love one of these greenlanders, but wouldn't like to have to make a quick exit/entry and I wouldn't want to be in a surf zone with another!

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by ian johnston » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:13 pm

John,

A truly gorgeous boat. It may be compromised in some minor ways - but I bet you'll have a grin as wide as the Minch every minute you're paddling it!

Enjoy...

Ian

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chris-uk
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chris-uk » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:23 pm

johnb wrote:So how much do people value aesthetics over practicality?... I'd love one of these greenlanders, but wouldn't like to have to make a quick exit/entry and I wouldn't want to be in a surf zone with another!
My plywood Greenland form boat has a keyhole size cockpit, no issues with entry or exit, but I get all the Greenland-style performance I want from the hull/deck/chines.

Chris

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maryinoxford
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by maryinoxford » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:35 pm

johnb wrote:So how much do people value aesthetics over practicality?...
I admit to being influenced by appearance. I needed a lightweight folding kayak. Probably the lightest folder around is FirstLight:
Image
But I don't like the way it looks. So instead I bought the Feathercraft, which I find much more pleasing, although a few kilos heavier:
Image

Aesthetics aren't everything. Chillipepper's boat is gorgeous, but I doubt if I could fit in it, let alone paddle it, so I don't want one. But where there are a few options that will do the job, I'm likely to pick one whose appearance gives me pleasure.

Mary
Not in Oxford any more...

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:37 pm

aesthetics + very important (for me anyway)... especially black carbon things... here's my time-trial bike...
Image
Image

apols for digressing off kayak topic there...

johnb
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by johnb » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:23 pm

Hmmm... more money than sense! But as you say, you don't have kids....

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by John N » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:45 pm

All that carbon - and then a spring link on the chain! I'm still jealous - just a gram or so less though.

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chillipepper
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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:53 pm

re spring link, yeah me being lazy, that's a MIche chain I had to put on for one race as I wanted to use a 16T sprocket, normally use a 15T or 14T and the regular DiD track chain with the bolt through link was too short... as for lacking sense, yeah possibly, lol, but certainly in competitive sprts like cycle racing if you're got the legs then the equipment can make a difference. an all carbon kayak tho,, yeah, extravagance but still costs less than what a lot of folk spend on their TVs.. :-)

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by TaysideTom » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:12 pm

So how much do people value aesthetics over practicality?
It isn't quite such a straight forward tradeoff as that. The Greenland thing is not just about aesthetics, but about a different style of paddling, and a different style of kayak, and learning how that works. My own black boat is fairly low volume by modern British sea kayak standards, although it probably has a bit more volume than the Tahe Greenland (but then I suspect that I have more volume, and mass, than Chillipepper). I started paddling it regularly at the beginning of last year, and after using it on a couple of weekend trips rapidly reached the conclusion that it was a day boat, not a touring boat. But I've learned a lot from paddling it, and it keeps me on my toes. I will continue to use it for local day trips.

I've now bought the other Tahe - the Reval - which will be my touring boat for this season. And I've designed a stitch and glue plywood boat which should also be suitable for touring, but will take me a while to finish, hence the hurried purchase of the Tahe.

Basically, it's horses for courses. If you can have one boat, don't get a low volume Greenland kayak - unless you're purely interested in rolling and day paddling in sheltered conditions. These are not touring kayaks, and were never designed to be. In Greenland these are hunting machines, designed for day paddling in relatively sheltered waters, and for sneaking up on seals. The traditional kayaks which were intended, and used, for sea touring were the Aleutian style boats: Baidarkas, Bristol Bay, and King Island style kayaks. These are boats which were used for open crossings and long distance trips, and they tend to have a lot more volume than Greenland style kayaks, have more rounded hulls, are fairly swede form and generally a lot more volume.

So you're right: these Greenland style kayaks are not very practical for the kind of touring that most people use sea kayaks for. But that's not really the point - they're for experiencing something a bit different which can challenge your paddling skills. I should add that I built my Greenland boat for £250 (and that was without stinting - I could have done it for probably about £150 or so if I'd tried). So it's not necessarily a very expensive experiment in a different way of paddling. I'd also say that, in my opinion, it would be sacrilege to paddle a boat like this with anything but a Greenland paddle, which is an important part of the whole experience.

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by peakfreak » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:32 pm

TaysideTom wrote:It isn't quite such a straight forward tradeoff as that...well informed blah dee blah...which is an important part of the whole experience.
Yeh but it really is a sexy looking craft, so much so I feel it deserves a peakfreak Fnarr! Fnarr! :-)
TaysideTom wrote: I should add that I built my Greenland boat for £250 (and that was without stinting - I could have done it for probably about £150 or so if I'd tried).
Out of interest Tom, how do you go about building a boat like the Greenland. Serious question as I am looking at a project for summer, and a £250 project seems like a good place to start. If it all went a bit "oval shaped fruit" then I wouldn't feel bad about losing that amount.

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by chillipepper » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:13 am

TaysideTom wrote:
So how much do people value aesthetics over practicality?
.......a different style of paddling, and a different style of kayak, and learning how that works. ......... So you're right: these Greenland style kayaks are not very practical for the kind of touring that most people use sea kayaks for. But that's not really the point - they're for experiencing something a bit different which can challenge your paddling skills. I should add that I built my Greenland boat for £250 (and that was without stinting - I could have done it for probably about £150 or so if I'd tried). So it's not necessarily a very expensive experiment in a different way of paddling. I'd also say that, in my opinion, it would be sacrilege to paddle a boat like this with anything but a Greenland paddle, which is an important part of the whole experience.
...this is why I wanted it.. to explore something different, challenge myself, get high on adrenalin...* and as I'm doing less racing these days, used to be sponsored but now just for fun, I sold one of my bikes and that paid for it.. kind of recycled the ££ into something else of you like. I do feel slightly embarrassed sometimes byt the £££ i put into my sprts...but then one of my closest friends is a competitive sailor ..compared to his gear costs a £2k kayak is trivial. I do have a greenland paddle by the way, essential I think for exploring the various rolling techniques

* plus of course it looked really sexy andI just wanted it :-)

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Yellerbelly » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:09 am

Image

Great looking kayak (qajaq?) Tom. Very tempted to stain mine black. What did you use? Have to get the skinning, staining and sealing done in the next couple of weeks.
Mike, careful where this greenland thing could take you. I've gone from paddling with a £300 foam-cored Werner to a £20 piece of wood! You should try one of these maybe. You can never have too much carbon fibre!
peakfreak, I used Chris Cunningham's book plus alot of lurking on qajaqusa.org. Plus these online instructions, different from the cunningham book and simpler.
. . . Ben

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by peakfreak » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:12 am

Yellerbelly wrote:peakfreak, I used Chris Cunningham's book plus alot of lurking on qajaqusa.org. Plus these online instructions, different from the cunningham book and simpler.
. . . Ben
Cheers Ben, that instructables site is excellent. My wife is soooo going to be miffed at me. Hi ho hi ho off to the garage I go :-)

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Jim » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:24 pm

chillipepper wrote: I sold one of my bikes and that paid for it.. kind of recycled the ££ into something else of you like. I do feel slightly embarrassed sometimes byt the £££ I put into my sprts...but then one of my closest friends is a competitive sailor ..compared to his gear costs a £2k kayak is trivial.
Amazingly I still can't summon the bottle to buy a new kayak despite the many hours of pleasure it's going to give me, but money probably isn't really the issue if I really think about it....
I'm racing kite buggies at the moment, I'm probaby into it for at least 10K and considering trying to get some custom kites which won't be cheap.
Fortunately I have a really good relationship with my bank, and my debts are reducing all the time, especially with the low interest rates!

I am also single, it simplifies so much!

I think my best bet is going to be to pump some more of the banks money in to fixing up my garage, borrow/hire one of the many sea king moulds I now know about and build myself a new one in the black stuff.
Black is obviously the new black!

:-)

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by TaysideTom » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:09 pm

The Cunningham book and the Wolfgang Brinck instructables site mentioned above are definitely the best resources around. Also, if you can get a copy, the Morris book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Skin-F ... 553&sr=8-1

Yellerbelly mentioned the Qajaqusa website. There is a really great forum there, and the members are very helpful with questions from new builders. Another really good site is Brian Schulz's Cape Falcon Kayak. Lots of general information, and some interesting pictures of the building process: http://www.capefalconkayak.com/ Brian has also designed his owm modern style kayak, built with traditional skin on frame techniques. It is supposed to be very light, and good for day paddling and surfing.

A common beginner's mistake is to make the ribs too veed in shape, and to end up with something that is uncontrollably tippy. Make sure that you bend the ribs so the bilges are nice and full.

You will be amazed, once you've got the hang of the lashings, how solid a conection they are, and what a brilliant, simple and effective design it is. The thought that you can build a really solid, seaworthy kayak using only lashings and pegs, with no glue, screws or nails, is quite mind boggling. But it's brilliant.

Instead of building a generic Greenland kayak from Cunningham, you can make a replica (or semi-replica), of a specific boat from Kayaks of Greenland, which has over 100 drawings My boat is KOG 67, which is relatively beefy by traditional Greenland standards (but then I'm a bit heavier than the average Inuit): http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/KOG.html

Yellerbelly: I skinned it with heavy duty ballistic nylon from Point North, which I believe is used for stab proof vests. Which is probably why is is only available in Navy blue... it goes black when you waterproof it with varnish (I used two part urethane, which was quite expensive, but seems to have stood up to a fairly solid year of use without any problems. One part urethane would probably have been nearly as good, and a lot cheaper and easier to use). A friend of mine prefers to use canvas and housepaint for his skin on frame kayaks, and it seems to work quite well. But the nylon is a lot softer and easier to sew.

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Yellerbelly » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:50 am

Cheers Tom,
Think I'm using much the same covering having bought nylon and 2 part urethane from Skinboats, another useful resource.
. . . . Ben

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Ceegee » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:21 pm

johnb wrote: I'd love one of these greenlanders, but wouldn't like to have to make a quick exit/entry!
That is the beauty, you don't have to! Just lie back, go to sleep, oh and roll up when you feel like it. :-)

Image

Steve
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Steve C. G.

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Re: Tahe Greenland...just arrived :-)

Post by Ceegee » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:55 pm

Jim wrote: borrow/hire one of the many sea king moulds I now know about and build myself a new one in the black stuff.
I guess you could cut an inch each out of the deck and hull for a really low profile - a Seaking LV so to speak. That should put the seam on the waterline - if it isn't already :-)

Good Idea BTW - go for it!

Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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