210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

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MattB
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210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by MattB » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:34 pm

I was all set to buy a 210cm Werner Cyprus paddle in a cranked shaft until the very helpful and knowledgeable sales assisitant sugggested 215 cm would be more appropriate for my height (5'10) and boat width of 56cm.

Any advice or opinions are welcomed. Given my current paddle anything will feel considerably better!!

Thanks

Matthew

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Mark R
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Mark R » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:14 pm

Yup, get the longer one.
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RichardCree
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by RichardCree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:13 pm

no get the smaller one!

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by active4seasons » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:18 pm

Matt may well appreciate your justifications for your advice. Do your comments have something to do with your preferred paddling styles perhaps?
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MattB
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by MattB » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:31 pm

Justifications would be appreciated. The werner website suggests 210cm based on boat width and my height, while Nigel Dennis suggests 210-216cm based on my height. It's a large amount of cash to splash!!

Shorter would mean a higher stroke rate, possibly tiring quicker?

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Matthew

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Mark R
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Mark R » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:39 pm

I'm not going to waste hundreds of words over 5 cm...

At 6'3" I use 220 cm (or longer if using Kinetic Wings), I paddle with a normal high angled stroke.

If the paddle proves slightly overlength (which I doubt) you can either use your shoulders to lift your blades slightly higher before the catch (probably a good thing) or if really bothered, get it shortened.

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AlanTelemark
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by AlanTelemark » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:49 pm

Hi Matt
Just bought a new whitewater paddle and now regret buying a shortie (194), after an " episode " in a rapid i struggled to keep the boat up then failed to roll (and swam for the first time in a few years). My older paddle was 10 cm longer. Maybe i just wasn't used to it yet.

In the sea i paddle 215 with medium to large blade areas, a few cm longer for wings and occasionally use my old 220 nordkapp (but not at the start of the season as it goes for the tendons when i put the power on). I am 5ft 8 ish and my sea boats range from 50 - 54cm width. I have a high action and quick cadence.

Blade area and profile is also important as well as material type.

Alan

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Eclair » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:11 pm

I have a variable length paddle 210-215cm, so have tried both. I found 210cm too short, and i am only 5'6". Definitely get the longer one.
Last edited by Eclair on Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by pamf » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:14 pm

I found this article by Chris Duff interesting, advocating shorter length in relation to the Werner Ikelos. He is 6ft, and his preference is actually to go to 205 cm with that larger blade. Also, in issue 12 of Ocean Paddler there is an article by Nigel Dennis on forward paddling which discusses paddle length - indicating that shorter length effectively allows you to change down a gear, which is good esp for windier and rougher conditions, or a laden kayak.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by jamesl2play » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:33 pm

Eclair wrote:I have a variable length paddle 210-215cm, so have tried both, and everything in between, extensively. I found 210cm too short, and I am only 5'6". Definitely get the longer one.
I am also 5'6" and completely agree with this comment. A shorter shaft makes your top arm come over the centre line of the boat and the blade stay in the water passed your hip before exit. IMHO

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by ls » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:11 pm

you'll probably be happy with either, the level of happiness will depend on your style and what you want to get out of paddling.

I'm 6'4 and had the chance to test drive a 210 Cyprus which I was more than happy with (almost didn't give them back), but in the end went for 215 for myself, I like being able to manuvre a lot although I have a long boat, which justified the extra 5cm to me at least, but I would quite happily use 210 for straight line paddling (I do have a high angle style).

I also test drove 210 Ikelos, and was almost convinced to get them, until I ended up towing someone in high winds and felt that I was overloading my body with the amount of power available in them - guess I'm not well enough conditioned to handle them.

If your around the Glasgow area, can probably link up to test drive if your interested.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by bradkarma » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:30 am

I'm 6'0" and paddle with a 215 Werner Shuna. I am currently waiting for a varilok cranked Lendal to arrive from the states which should let me go down to 210 when needed.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by John N » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:54 am

I can't accuratly use the WERNER PADDLE GUIDE as I've shorter than average limbs in relation to my back. For example; I use 215cm LENDAL cranked kinetic's yet I'm only 5' 4" tall. Things I consider are 'How high do you sit in your boat' and 'How wide is your arm span'. I think it might have been Nigel Dennis who advised me at an 'Outdoor Show' a while back but can't be positive. I seem to find it easier to go into a high angle stroke with a longer paddle than to go into a more relaxed low angle with a shorter length when I've used various club paddles on the river.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by MikeB » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:50 am

I'd have thought that if Nigel Dennis was offering advice, presumably having done so face-to-face, then it would probably be worth considering.

According to the Werner "guide", I should use a 215 Shuna. According to the Ainsworth "guide" I should use a 225, but it doesnt tell me what specific model. Neither tell me what color to buy.

I dont like Werners or Ainsworths. I use a 220 Lendal (in black). Why? Because I like it - you're right though - it's a lot of cash to spend, so (as with choosing a boat) you really need to try and try as many different styles, makes and lenghts as you can before you commit to buying.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by action_girl72 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:12 am

I'm 5'9 & paddle with a 225cm Werner Corryvreckan on a straight shaft.

But I am a beast!

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by camelpaddler » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:45 am

Depends on what type of boat you are using if short and fat eg play boat, where speed drops off quickly between paddle strokes then then a higher paddling rate is more effective hence shorter blades. long narrow boat , sea kayak or racing boat longer blades and lower paddling rate would be more effective. 215 cm would be the minimun i would recommend for touring . paddles with centre join would enable you to adjust length for different craft and conditions.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Jim » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:39 pm

I'm 5'10 and I think my boat is 550mm wide.

My first sea paddles were about 2300mm as thats what was normal back then, I now use kinetic touring blades on a modified crank shaft that are 2180mm long and they feel really good.

My first few sets of river paddles were around 2100 or 2080mm, again because that was what was common then, I am now down to about 1980 for them, but I still feel that 2100 would be too short for me in the sea boat.

Part of the problem that is rarely addressed is the length of the blade, many sea blades are longer than whitewater blades (and come in all different sizes) so whilst the overall length seems like the important factor (you don't want a blade catching the surface on the recovery because it's too long do you? - think about that!) what is probably more important is the length to the top of the blade since you need to be able to get this just below the surface without over reaching yourself, at your preferred paddling angle. To be honest I paddle at lots of different angles depending on how tired I am, which is perhaps why I favour a slightly longer shaft so I can still get all the blade in at the end of the day when my paddle angle has drooped.

Geoff made an interesting comment last year as we landed after a bit of a slog in reasonable wind (don't ask how much, it was quite gusty so opinions differ) - he accused me of adopting 'that b******t low angle paddling' just because it had got 'a bit breezy'. I was completely unaware of this, sure I had slowed down a bit to regroup and when faced with a head wind whether kayaking, biking or walking I have a tendancy to drop my head into it, so I think these things combined to lower my paddle angle noticeably without it even being a conscious thing.... Or maybe it' because my shaft is too long, or my paddle too light (it always seems to be ready to fly away in a bit of wind)?

Jim

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Mark R » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:58 pm

Jim wrote:maybe it' because my shaft is too long
I only quoted this because if I hadn't, someone else would have.
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by KimB » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:04 pm

Mark R wrote:I'm not going to waste hundreds of words over 5 cm...
....or 2.5cm at each end.

Which one felt better in the shop? My guess having paddled many miles with you is that you'll adapt to either. We're a similar height, and I paddle with a 220 Kinetic. I have a 4 part 215 which I use when travelling with the khatsolano and personally think that's about as short as I'd like to go.
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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by geoffm » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:35 pm

It does come down to personal preference and also paddling style but I am surprised at the number of long paddle length advocates. I use a Lendal Kinetic Tour crank paddle at 210cm and I am 6'1".I paddle an HV Explorer and Alaw Bach. I have used a 205cm Werner and found it quite comfortable. My wife, who is a towering 4'11" currently uses a 205 Werner Cyprus crank but we have a custom 195cm paddle on order for her. We paddled with the abovementioned Chris Duff last September and he is a strong advocate of shorter paddles. My wife was using a 205 while we were paddling with him and he paddled up beside her and said her paddle was too long, it should be at least 200cm probably shorter. On the same trip we also paddled with Jon Walpole (of TITS fame) and his wife uses a 195cm Lendal, she is a shorter girl too).

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by rockhopper » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:38 am

I'm with Geoff on this one... I currently use a 200cm Werner Player (I'm 5' 8" and paddle an Alaw Bach). I find it 's large'ish blade give lots of control and power without being too exhausting on the shoulders and arms and the paddle length seems to suit my height, boat width and paddling style. I have no problems with distance paddling being too tiring but my boat does seem to suffer from a fair amount of scuffing on the sides toward my feet were the blade occasionally skims it as the blade enters the water.....possibly a slightly longer paddle would prevent this !!
I did try a Werner Shuna @ 215cm for a couple of weeks but just could not get on with and adapt to the extra length.
Clearly paddling style has a major effect and as I favour quite an aggresive high style I found I was dipping too much of the blade of the Shuna's (actually past the blade) in the water with each stroke and the take out felt like it was happening too far back.
I guess, in time and when the opportunity arises I would probably like to try a 205 or 210 Corryvrecken as this may well be the happy medium.

Rog.

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by geoffm » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:30 pm

Hi Rog,

Try putting some 1" adhesive backed velcro (the soft fuzzy side) where your paddle clips. Doesn't stop the clipping but it does cut the noise down :-) I have done this with my Explorer and Bach.

Geoff

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by rockhopper » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:52 pm

Sounds a simple but effective solution..

thanks Geoff!

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by Jim » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:11 pm

Mark R wrote:
Jim wrote:maybe it' because my shaft is too long
I only quoted this because if I hadn't, someone else would have.
I was quite generous with the double-entendres :-)

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by stellak » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:33 pm

I have a Werner Cyprus crank shaft paddle 210cm and I'm 5foot4. It feels fine - wide enough for the boat (Northshore Polar) and not too long for me. So my guess would be that at your height the 215 might be better? I originally wondered about a 205 but could not get one without shipping from US. What helped me decide was trialling a few at a symposium - do you have a chance of doing that?

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Re: 210cm V 215 cm Paddle length

Post by timax » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:12 am

geoffm wrote:Hi Rog,

Try putting some 1" adhesive backed velcro (the soft fuzzy side) where your paddle clips. Doesn't stop the clipping but it does cut the noise down :-) I have done this with my Explorer and Bach.

Geoff
I hate this problem! I have a new white deck kayak and the only marks on it are from my paddle. Thanks for the tip!

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