Anas Acuta replica ?^

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al27
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Post by al27 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:41 am

Not really. More like the Black Pearl. There is a big discussion about it on Bjorn's website. And as the Anas is only a copy of another boat....

Al.

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Mike Marshall
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Post by Mike Marshall » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:18 am

ohhh, that is a BEAUTIFUL boat :-)

Does this mean Lastkapacitet 100 kg...max weight 100kg??


MikeM

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Ceegee
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Post by Ceegee » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:14 pm

Load Capacity - Yes. I'm asuming that is paddler PLUS gear. She certainly sits low in the water...but what else do you want in a pure rolling machine?
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BTW, the price (SEK15,100 = £1,240) seems extremely reasonable. What a beautiful boat though. The Swedes have always had an edge in Greenland-style kayaks. The only European Water Field importers are in Sweden (where I went to get mine)
Image
Image

and as mentioned, Bjorn Thomasson's Black Pearl needs no introduction. It was surely only a matter of time before some enterprising soul designed a Greenland-style in Europe. I'm Soooooo tempted.

Steve

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Mike Marshall
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Post by Mike Marshall » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:40 pm

Wow that is a good price, paddle it back too..HA!
That would definitely come in under the radar its sooo low.
I'm 108kg though :( Couldnt even take a flask and sandwiches.

I believe that Mike at Rockpool has one he made for Freya.
I think I need to visit him soon.

MikeM

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al27
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Post by al27 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:23 pm

The front deck of the rockpool is one of the prettiest I've seen, (if you're into that sort of thing..) more angular, but really works with the sharp bow and stern upturns. I'd love to be alone with that mould for a week or so ;)

Al.

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Wenley
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Tahe Marine

Post by Wenley » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:26 am

Hello Steve,

What footrest is the Greenland fitted with?

Wenley
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The weather is like the government, always in the wrong.

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Ceegee
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Post by Ceegee » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:07 pm

Shaped foam blocks, high density, up tight against the bulkhead. I have a series of three, each about 4", so it can fit a number of leg lengths (i.e. my daughter - 4'6" to me 6'). The seat is removable. The pan is screwed to the sides with s/steel bolts and captive nuts, so you can take it out in seconds and replace with a shaped foam seatpad. Rear bulkhead is concave & sloped - drains in seconds. Clever ideas (both original). A bum high backrest is molded into the seat, and you can lie on the back deck and sleep!
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I did the same with my Alaw Bach footrest. Mike glassed in a h/duty bulkhead (not the Skikkaflexed panel) and I took out the back strap and shaped a solid foam backrest.

Steve

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Ceegee
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Post by Ceegee » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:36 pm

Thanks Al,

Nice of you to say so. Starfish were getting a bit pasé, and the diamonds are a bit of a story. I'm a geologist working in Finland, and found a new diamond deposit there this summer - so decided to treat myself (company didn't pay me a bonus mind!). Black is a bit of a rage at the moment, but I've owned so many yellow decks with white hulls in the past, I thought I was entitled to a little bit of a "fashion statement" too!
Image
Steve

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Wenley
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Tahe Marine Greenland

Post by Wenley » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:14 pm

Thanks Steve,

Nothing like a gold mine then, uhm?

Regarding Tahe Marine, the company seems to have a network of dealerships in Europe. E.g.: In the UK, their website names Brookbank Canoes.
Last edited by Wenley on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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al27
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Post by al27 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:51 pm

Hi Steve, I think I might have got my wires crossed; when Mike said about Freya's boat, I assumed he meant this one.
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Although, a diamond deposit, and making a boat because of it. Doesn't get much more rock 'n roll than that!!

Al.

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Post by Anders » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:49 pm

Not a traditional greenland paddler myself, but since there are few real low volume boats (small peoples boats) with a good width to length ratio, I thought I'd try the tahe greenlander. The cockpit rim is not only short, but also low since it's flushed to the foredeck. At 5'9" (140 pounds) it took a real effort to get in and out off the boat. With a shoe size of 8.5 I had to get rid of my hard soled neopreen boots not to get too cramped. Foot pegs are easy to adjust once seated. I could use some padding under the foredeck. According to rumours there will be a larger cockpit opening available for next year.

I tried it for a short spin the other week. The dealer didn't have a spray skirt for it and the swedish water is rather cold this time of year. The greenlander is very stable and turns fast on edge (and floods equally fast). The skeg is very over sized. Trying to carve a turn with the skeg fully deployed almost caught me off balance. There's simply no way to force the stern sideways with the skeg down! Can't really say anything about the rolling performance of the boat as I only rolled it once and without a skirt.

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Wenley
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Cockpit

Post by Wenley » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:43 pm

Hello Anders,

You are quite right. The company in Estonia tells me that as from last week, a 57 x 40 cockpit, which is 7 cm longer, is already available.

That should do it to get into it. Howeve, has anyone tried the Greenland with a shoe size 11?
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Post by geyrfugl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:44 am

Rear bulkhead is concave & sloped - drains in seconds. Clever ideas (both original).
People have been building sloped and curved aft bulkheads
for years in strip boats, and there's an Australian website
(can't find the URL at the moment) which describes a "pod
cockpit" where the aft bulkhead effectively curves right down
to the forward bulkhead, so cockpit volume is much reduced, and water sloshing about in it cannot get so far from the
centreline, as well as making the cockpit easy to empty.
Almost any idea you see in commercially manufactured
composite boats has seen several variations in home-built
boats before someone decided to mass-produce it.

Andy

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Re: Tahe Marine

Post by barret » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:31 am

Wenley wrote:Hello Steve,

What footrest is the Greenland fitted with?

Wenley
We use the SmartTrack rudder/pedal-system in all our kayaks as of 2009 models.

Mats/Tahe Marine Sweden

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by kaspian » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:04 pm

I hope this won't be regarded as blatant advertising, but I thought you might like to know that Shoreham Sea Kayaks stock Tahe Marine products, and will be including the Greenland in their range for 2009. For technical reasons we have previously marketed their boats under our own brand of Kaspian Kayaks (the Kaspian SK18 is a Tahe Marine Reval S), but this will change for next year

We are told the RRP for the fibreglass version of the Greenland is £1399. Tahe haven't given us a price for the carbon version yet, but based on their other boats, it will probably be about £800 more. We will have our first stock of Greenlands around about April. Demo boats will also be available then. Naturally, I will be ordering one for myself!

Our website will be updated with the latest information early in the new year.
Pete Raynor
Shoreham Sea Kayaks
www.shorehamseakayaks.co.uk

tg
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by tg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:00 pm

I wish people would stop referring to greenland style kayaks as 'rolling' boats. Many of us have built and used this type of boat quite happily. Lets face it ultimately we all need to roll and certainly in my younger w/w days I would consider a roll as innocuous as a bow rudder or any other stroke. There are distinct advantage; weight, speed, windage. I think the phrase 'less is more' can be applied here. A good fast dayboat with excellent looks and a carbon/kevlar lay-up. Looks like the 'must have' thing for Summer 2009 to me.

Tim.
"I sink therfore I am".

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Windowshade
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by Windowshade » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:25 pm

The phrase "Greenland style kayak" gets used loosely. I use it to refer to a kayak that is similar to those that have been used in Greenland. These were hunting boats, principally for seals. They didn't carry cargo. They didn't need much volume. They could be narrow (low stability) because those who paddled them were highly skilled. They were very maneuverable (lots of rocker), to turn quickly in hunting. They were seaworthy. They were easy to roll because they were narrow and shallow (thus, low volume). Greenland kayaks also were/are hard chined (though some were multi-chined).

Today, any kayak that is hard-chined tends to be called "Greenland style". I have two hard-chined kayaks, a Valley Anas Acuta and an NDK Greenlander Pro. The Anas Acuta is close to being a Greenland style kayak because it is a fiberglass copy of one. The Greenlander Pro is not in any true sense a Greenland style kayak, though it is a good hard-chined kayak. I say this because (among other things) it is too high volume and it has little rocker.

The closest one comes to a Greenland style kayak are the skin on frame replicas. Well, here in Newfoundland total destruction would result from the first surf landing on the piles of rocks that we call beaches. I am envious of those for whom a skin on frame kayak is a realistic option.

As to the view that Greenland style kayaks are good for rolling but not (it seems to be suggested) for other types of paddling, I would most respectfully differ. The Anas Acuta is a very seaworthy kayak. While it is slow and uninspiring in calm conditions, it comes into its own in a way that is astonishing when wind & seas build.

All this said, my favorite kayak is my Nordkapp. When I put to sea in it, with my Greenland paddle in my hands, I am as ready as I can be for fun on the open ocean.

Malcolm

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by tg » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:00 pm

Hi Pete (SSK),

Just been browsing this thread again and noticed a comment regarding a larger cockpit. Do you have any information about this. As I mentioned elsewhere I am not as slim as I used to be (or probably should be!).

For others; I currently paddle an SK18 and am very pleased with it. Build quality is good and there is nothing there that you don't need. And everything that you do.

My other sea kayaks have been, and are, of stitch and glue plywood construction and come out very light. So the carbon version of this kayak, for me at least, looks like the pinnacle so far. (You may have guessed I am not an expeditioner particularly). Any other nominations.

Tim
"I sink therfore I am".

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Ceegee
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by Ceegee » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:00 am

tg wrote:I wish people would stop referring to greenland style kayaks as 'rolling' boats.
Sorry, I'm among the guilty here. Windowshade's right too - the Anas is a European (direct) copy of a "greenland" boat - the Greenlander is in style only.

My reason for calling them "rolling" boats - and I'm referring specifically to the likes of the Tahe & WaterField boats, is that, remaining true to greenlander dimensions, of very low volume, and with a 12 stone plus Dead(weight)WhiteMale aboard, they have precious little cargo space or freeboard. They are also not particularly fast. IMHO, a lot of people own these for sport rolling. That does not mean they are not eminently seaworthy and suitable for long (day) trips, as originally intended by their Inuit designers. Rolling for fun is a niche sport (see Dubside's comment on TITS4) and these boats are ideally suited to it (like most homebuilt SOF's - sadly beyond the means of the carpentry-challenged). No more harm is intended than in calling a boat an "expedition" kayak. Doesn't mean you can't bimble down the coast for the day in one.

Cheers & happy Christmas to all,


Steve
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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MikeD
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Not fast.......??

Post by MikeD » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:27 am

I were looking at the Tahe Greenland yesterday here in Copenhagen, just before I arrived a customer had returned from a 8Km paddle and managed to hold 9.7Kmh on his gps......... he bought the kayak and went home for christmas with a very big smile.
  • The boats look wellmade with the lowest backdeck I have everseen
    The decklines do not extend to bow or stern, end toggles are not fitted ???
    The ocean cockpit comes in 2 sizes, Smallish & tiny
    the boat actually weighs 18kg in standard layup
    The skeg is enormous, as big if not bigger than on a K2 !!!!
I am expecting to get out to try one of these low, slim, fast rolly boats before newyear

all the best

Mike

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by johnb » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:19 pm

Why such a big skeg? Shouldn't the low rear deck stop the wind catching it?... or don't I understand boat design!

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Windowshade
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by Windowshade » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Weather cocking (or lee cocking) results from a difference in lateral resistance between the part of the kayak that is forward of its pivot point and the part of the kayak that is astern of the pivot point. In other words, if the stern gets pushed sideways by wind & waves more than the bow, then the kayak pivots bringing the bow up into the wind, i.e. weather cocking. (If the bow gets pushed sideways more than the stern, then the pivoting brings the stern into the wind, i.e. lee cocking). Whether a kayak weather cocks (or lee cocks) isn't simply a question of how high the bow and stern sit out of the water and, thus, how much sail effect they generate. Rather it's a combination of that, plus how much rocker there is on the bow & stern, how fast the kayak is moving forward through the water, plus probably a host of other factors that I don't understand (though I think I've identified the three main ones). A skeg is "big enough" for a given kayak if it allows the paddler to equalize lateral resistance between the bow & stern under the full range of conditions that the kayak is likely to encounter.

Whether the skeg on the Tahe Greenland is larger than it needs to be, I don't know. What I do know is that you really don't want a skeg that is too small, so that even when fully deployed the kayak still weather cocks.

A couple of final thoughts. First, its useful to have a larger skeg when you want a kayak to lee cock, notably to assist turning downwind in rough conditions. As a related matter, a big skeg is also useful when paddling in heavy following seas to provide additional lateral resistance; this slows down a broach and, thus, gives you a little extra time to compensate by tilting the boat and using a stern rudder to hold the kayak on course.

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by kaspian » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:00 am

Hi Tim,

I've emailed Tahe Marine to ask them about cockpit dimensions and they have now put more info on their website. They give the Greenland's cockpit as 50 x 40 cm compared to 72 x 40 for the Reval, so it should be as snug as your Kaspian SK18, but a bit trickier to get in and out!

Incidentally, they've now also added Shoreham Sea Kayaks to their "find a dealer" page.

Regards,
Pete
Pete Raynor
Shoreham Sea Kayaks
www.shorehamseakayaks.co.uk

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by kaspian » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:36 pm

I've just heard back from Tahe Marine. They have confirmed that the cockpit is available in 2 sizes, standard is 50 x 40 and extended is 57 x 40.

Regards,
Pete
Pete Raynor
Shoreham Sea Kayaks
www.shorehamseakayaks.co.uk

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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by tg » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:52 am

To be honest my point of reference in referring to a kayak as 'greenland style' is based on my knowledge of the Angmagssalik. This is a wooden stitch and glue based directly on an East Greenland boat (hence Angmagssalik) brought to the UK and copied I believe as accurately as possible. Obviously the A. is not an original but I've seen those distintive lines rarely over the years even, dare I say it, in the Anas Acuta... Which I last paddled a long time ago.
"I sink therfore I am".

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Re: Anas Acuta/Black Pearl - some important little known details

Post by Tourer » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:52 am

Yes something like this is a long held dream of mine since I started off with a flawed design called P&H Quest that is squarely targeted at 120-140 kg paddlers (standard US size) who cannot roll since the huge cockpit without thigh braces is very easy to fall out of, loose one of those fiddly foot pegs then get into a Bft 5 > around Caldey Island ...

I am now sitting in a slightly better design called Tiderace Xcite/Narwhal (Rockpool Bach/Alaw is nearly identical I think) and have removed all fittings in favour of foam but the huge rocker makes for slamming and weather cocking, it just goes sideways small skeg or not in a Bft 6 + due to the ends sticking out..

It is worthwhile to read Bjoern Thomasson's comments and be mindful as for why he offers this particular design as a customised plan taking into account the weight, hip width, shoe size and so on - for this boat to work well it must have a good fit, but too tight would be just painful.

Precise fit and trim is the key to success - I got some insight from reading Cunninghams book.

A lot production sea boats in my view simply have the seat fitted way too far aft - seat centre should be just ~2,5 cm behind the point of balance. Just lift the boat at the cockpit rim and see at what point it swings freely. Obviously faults can be compensated by putting some ballast in the front hatch but why lugging ballast around for a winter training session/day trip ?

If the manufacturers understand this and offer a modular design, say a number of hull sizes and various cockpits to fit then they could be on to a big winner !

Or if you are part of a club with a decent shed or with a garage of 6 metres then get maybe a customised kit based on obviously the same design for S&G

http://bateauxbois.over-blog.com/1-categorie-273039.htm

Skeg or not with this design is the question. I know people who sit in Anas Acuta's since decades but have bought new ones with skegs and say it is better this way.

NDK Explorer is one of the few UK boats suitable for rough water and following seas in my view but I didn't like the standard keyhole cockpit. The "LV" version is a near precise fit for me (184cm/94 kg) but then the quality standards tend to vary a bit and the standard glass version is awfully heavy..

Regards

Rainer

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MikeD
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by MikeD » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:09 pm

I started off with a flawed design called P&H Quest that is squarely targeted at 120-140 kg paddlers
I am certain that there are lots of paddlers out there that would disagree, the Quest is a great boat for people of around your weight, espescially in rought water. It all comes down to experience...... what one person calls rough conditions are just a little lumpy for others, as for rolling a Quest, I have no problem rolling one fully loaded in so called rough conditions......

I have paddled LOTS of different boats, and find P&H to be extremely comfortable and capable compared to everything else that has the same target group. As for the Tahe greenland, I doubt many people could pack it for a week long trip without it becoming a u-boat......


Mike

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Windowshade
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Re: Anas Acuta replica ?

Post by Windowshade » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:15 pm

Rainer said,"NDK Explorer is one of the few UK boats suitable for rough water and following seas". I must disagree. Almost without exception the British boats are highly seaworthy. As well as the Explorer, the NDK Romany and the Greenlander both handle well in rough water and a following sea. For Valley kayaks, it's the same, including the Nordkapp, the Aquanaut and the Anas Acuta. (I haven't paddled a Pintail or a Q Boat.) The P&H Capella handles well in rough conditions, as does the Quest. (I haven't paddled a Sirius or a Bahiya.) I've only paddled an Alaw Bach in calm conditions, but it was kayak that gave me a sense of confidence.

It is North American kayaks that tend to handle poorly when things get rough, though there are notable exceptions. (The Wilderness Systems Tempest is good in rough water, as is the Current Designs Gulfstream.)

The difference is that British kayaks are designed for the adverse conditions often found around the British Isles, while many North American kayaks are designed for sheltered waters inside the islands along the Pacific Coast.

British kayaks are the best in the world!

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Re: Anas Acuta/Black Pearl - some important little known details

Post by ian johnston » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Tourer wrote:
I am now sitting in a slightly better design called Tiderace Xcite/Narwhal (Rockpool Bach/Alaw is nearly identical I think) and have removed all fittings in favour of foam but the huge rocker makes for slamming and weather cocking, it just goes sideways small skeg or not in a Bft 6 + due to the ends sticking out..

Rainer
Rainer,

Got to disagree here too. The Xcite (and the Rockpool boats) handle rough water really well - it was a primary part of their design brief. Remember, (and without going over a previous thread) that the gba Sport Narwhal is not a Tiderace or Rockpool Alaw/Bach- it's a ripped-off copy of a pre-production Xcite plug. It will no doubt handle differently than either of the finished articles.

cheers

Ian

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