Corrosion on Palm Kaikoura Tour PFD

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juliasixtyfive
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Corrosion on Palm Kaikoura Tour PFD

Post by juliasixtyfive » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:00 pm

How widespread is the problem of corrosion of the zippers on the pockets of Palm Kaikoura Tour PFDs?

Mine has been in use since February and is always rinsed in fresh water after use. All four front pocket zippers are showing signs of corrosion and one zipper has now stuck.

I contacted Palm, they told me to return it to the retailer - so it's going off in the post today. Apparetntly it could take "anything from 2 weeks to 2 months" to sort this out.

I'm not happy... has anyone else had this problem and had it resolved?

Julia

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waltfos
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Post by waltfos » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:34 pm

Dont like palm kit but liked the style of there BA's

Palm tend to be overly priced and customer support lacking according to friends on dry suits/cags esp.

First to help are zips corroded or stuck with salt?

Try vinegar as its a granies secret recipe for unjaming and cleaning salt form icky places, always used on dry suits and old BAs for me too

Look at dry suit threads dont recloect one on the BA's to date tho

Trust this may help but I am sure an other paddlers will help you and confirm my statement above again they may not but

Keep shoogling in the interim

Walt

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Post by juliasixtyfive » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:04 pm

It's the corrosion of the zip pulls that is the main problem - they've all become very brittle.

Salt is possibly to blame for the sticking zip, but neither vinegar or zip lube helped shift it.

It's always hosed down with fresh water after use.

In my view the zips are just not up to the job.

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Post by AllanC » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:17 pm

Hi Julia it's Allan.

I just forced mine back to working order at the weekend, but the guts of the sliders on mine are bunged up and have severe surface pitting, as are certain parts of the zip part so I can neither fully close or open my pockets. I gave it a good going over last week and all four pockets were siezed enough that they would have been unusable on the water. Also more of the little drain bits in the pockets are starting to drop off.
It's infuriating that my Wildwater BA is 11 yo and still going strong yet this P.O.S. started to give up after 6 months.

Text me if you are going out at the weekend, I came down last week but you were already away.

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Post by juliasixtyfive » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:33 pm

Zips aside I really like the Kaikoura...

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Post by Owen » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:51 pm

I've had mine since August, worryingly since I got it I've come across three people who have had this problem. Not much I can do about it except try to keep the zips clean and lubed. It's a real pitty as apart from this there a really well thought out BA.

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Post by waltfos » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:15 pm

[quote="juliasixtyfive"]Salt is possibly to blame for the sticking zip, but neither vinegar or zip lube helped shift it. [quote]

Julia ensure the the vinegar is warm start with diluted and warm enough to work in with finger tips pulling frequently on zip toggle Then strengthen but it will go for your nose and make room smell like chip shop

once free put wax lub on it available from kayak and dive shops. This should help keep it free esp when you say you rinse yous jacket.

Advice on lubs beware as its now colder these things can thicken or freeze [does not need to be OC] and break toggle so be carefull what you put on any zip or hatch etc, ie vaseline is viscous on finger tips but will seal hatches solid if used from now till feb. Been there lol

Keep shoogling

As I and Owen said well thought out BA but Palms QC and puttin in cost friendly materials to them we the customer carry the finacial and quality loss. These guys will learn in lost revenue in coming years.

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Post by journeyman » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:19 pm

Doesn't help you now, but I understand that the zips are being changed to plastic on the next batch of these BA's.

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Re: palm

Post by Mark R » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:11 pm

waltfos wrote:Palm tend to be overly priced and customer support lacking according to friends on dry suits/cags esp.
Not very helpful when you think about it ...

1. How do you judge over-priced? I know Palm are at the more expensive end of the kit spectrum, but I tend to feel that their gear is consistently the best designed and best quality of that on the UK market. More crucially, Palm's best cags still cost less than a typical Goretex mountaineering jacket, a much bigger market.

2. 'According to friends ...' - what about your own experience of their customer service, does that not count for anything? Or do you have none yourself?
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Post by Colin C » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:51 pm

I too have a Palm BA, with its zips going. I contacted Palm and was advised to return it to them, I think it is a fantastic cut and shape, but poor zips. They had a look at it and gave me some silicone lube to use on the zips. They responded very quickly, but I will reserve judgement on their solution. If the new model has different zips, it must point to the old one having problems, I was surprised that they seemed to be surprised that I had problems, particularly given the number here saying they have the same issue. If it gets worse I will return it with the expectation that they repair or replace it. This might be a problem given they have no stock at present, and don't expect any till December. The last batch sold out quickly, it is a shame that they appear to test the product on customers, the design is superb, but one would expect this BA to be used in salt water. I have rinsed it and now scrub it with a nail brush after each trip, but the problem is still there. So all in all excellent customer care, but I am not sure if it is a solution, or a delay tactic, time will tell.
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Post by juliasixtyfive » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:33 pm

I emailed Palm customer service and they responded quickly telling me me to return the Kaikoura to the retailer - I spoke to the retailer on the phone and they said they would simply inspect it then send it to Palm once they get it. I posted it because the retailer I purchased it from is some distance from me. It seems a long way round.

Anyway, I was surprised when the retailer they told me they hadn't had any others returned with this problem... There seemed to be more awareness of the problem at the retail emporium at the Storm Gathering down in Anglesey last month (which was also where I was told the next batch will have plastic zips).

I agree the BA is a very good design, very comfortable, and with the exception of the zips it seems durable. Assuming the zips are improved on the next batch I'd still go for it ahead of the others I've tried, I just hope I don't have to lay out another £110 quite yet.

Anyway, fingers crossed.
Last edited by juliasixtyfive on Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: palm

Post by waltfos » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:33 pm

Mark R wrote:
waltfos wrote:Palm tend to be overly priced and customer support lacking according to friends on dry suits/cags esp.
Not very helpful when you think about it ...

1. How do you judge over-priced? I know Palm are at the more expensive end of the kit spectrum, but I tend to feel that their gear is consistently the best designed and best quality of that on the UK market. More crucially, Palm's best cags still cost less than a typical Goretex mountaineering jacket, a much bigger market.

2. 'According to friends ...' - what about your own experience of their customer service, does that not count for anything? Or do you have none yourself?
1] "If a pig wears lipstick its still a pig" now who coined that?
If i can get a product of equal quality for less and the secret is be happy with it then I am happy.
I pay for something and it does not do what it says and pay over the odds then i expect great customer service.

2] The site and threads including this one, there lies your answer to the above. Lots of grumbling on poor quality BA's also go to Drysuits delamiating and individual testaments again answers your queery.

We mear kayakers who do not get freebies not trial goods, have to air and vent our satisfaction and displeasures to whatever ends. Palm seam to work on buyer beware as previous thread[s] bare excuse pun
Top end top quality is out the window here with 3 complaints on qaulity.
To early for customer service report here but time will tell.
If we buy best we expect better service, But service counts for tons as owner. " are you being Served"
Dry suit customer service scares me away from Palm and "FRIENDS" too

If Palm are changing Zips as reported a product recall would be good and service the people who have and are supporting there goods, Now Thats Service

Kee[ Shoogling
Last edited by waltfos on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Corrosion on Palm Kaikoura Tour PFD

Post by NeilG » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:57 pm

juliasixtyfive wrote:How widespread is the problem of corrosion of the zippers on the pockets of Palm Kaikoura Tour PFDs?

Mine has been in use since February and is always rinsed in fresh water after use. All four front pocket zippers are showing signs of corrosion and one zipper has now stuck.

I contacted Palm, they told me to return it to the retailer - so it's going off in the post today. Apparetntly it could take "anything from 2 weeks to 2 months" to sort this out.

I'm not happy... has anyone else had this problem and had it resolved?

Julia
Same problem. PALM response was not inspiring. Just keep washing the zips off after every paddle.
Experience: something you get, just after you needed it...

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Post by Minke » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:17 am

Had same problem with mine and last week 2 of the zips came off, hmm, really uselful! Must admit Palm have been really great and I now have a replacement with black plastics zips.
They are aware of this issue, they put the metal zips on as it was a 'higher end' PFD, just a shame they weren't up to standard. Plastic ones were introduced and the first shipment has arrived in the UK....

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Re: palm

Post by Mark R » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:19 pm

waltfos wrote:The site and threads including this one, there lies your answer to the above.
I already told you my answer - and it comes from extensive personal experience. Once again, I'd encourage you to trust your own experience, rather than become indignant on behalf of indignant strangers on the internet.

I put it to you that the average UK sea kayaker is 100 times more likely to post up about something that niggled them, than about something that impressed them. This skews the stats somewhat ...
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Re: palm

Post by waltfos » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:41 am

Mark R wrote:
waltfos wrote:The site and threads including this one, there lies your answer to the above.
I already told you my answer - and it comes from extensive personal experience. Once again, I'd encourage you to trust your own experience, rather than become indignant on behalf of indignant strangers on the internet.

I put it to you that the average UK sea kayaker is 100 times more likely to post up about something that niggled them, than about something that impressed them. This skews the stats somewhat ...
First of all I object to your personal attack here you dont know me you dont know who my friends and/or colleagues are. You loose your voice a litte as you do get Freebies from your sponsors [Palm maybe] you dont want to upset them a vested interest. If you read thread I congratulate them on there design but dont like the cheapnes of materials used in this given subject. They are providers in the marine industry afterall.

The guys in my club[s] and paddling friends and yes I have paddled and done course[s] with Julia here too, so to answer I speak from expeience.
If you seach my name here and put thread in re trollies or boots you will see I am the first to priase good service. So not to skw your stats here then I must be above and more than the average bear booboo!

So if you are the man I think you are you efforts should be directed to getting suppliers and manufactures to give us the KAYAKERS that read and post on this site making money for someone also making money for the suppliers and manufacturers, whilst spending our hard earned cash
So do not belittle me as I am biggger in stature and common decency.
Comm'n Mark use your powers to do something now that would be nice to read and I TRUST WOULD HELP OTHERS. Show your colours
I do!
Every thing in life is a compromise, in this thread cash product quality and after sales service
This site could have a great strength if we supported one an other me friend.
If your up to it Shoogle mate

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Re: palm

Post by Mark R » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:14 pm

waltfos wrote:First of all I object to your personal attack here you dont know me you dont know who my friends and/or colleagues are.
What on earth are you talking about? I disagreed with your point of view, and gave my reasons why. That's not a personal attack. A 'personal attack' would be something more along the lines of ...
waltfos wrote:You loose your voice a litte as you do get Freebies from your sponsors [Palm maybe] you dont want to upset them a vested interest.
What a rude man you are. I currently have no sponsorship arrangements with any companies. If you really want to know what free gear I've ever had from Palm, then ask politely ... I'll happily tell you precisely what and when. As it happens, I've been lucky enough to borrow or even get free or discounted gear from many shops and all the main manufacturers in the last ten years, whether through advertising payment or magazine testing.

A few observations regarding that ...
... this puts me in a strong position to judge which gear I personally think is best.
... I choose to only paddle in the gear I think is best for my needs. Guess which brand that currently is.
... When I am offered free gear from shops in return for advertising, guess what brand of gear I go for?
... The vast majority of my personal gear I of course buy with my own wages - I almost always choose to buy from the company which I personally feel consistently makes the best designed and best quality gear.

Anyway to the crux - my apparent 'vested interest'. I'm not sure if it was what you were implying, but if you really are suggesting that I - as site editor - am trying to enforce the interests of one manufacturer or another over this site, then we have a real problem. Obviously this means that the editing of the site is unreliable/biased/untrustworthy. If this really is something you believe, then I strongly suggest that you don't use the site. Seriously. If you really believe that, don't touch UKRGB with a bargepole.
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waltfos
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Post by waltfos » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:20 pm

You are what you are and your written word confirms and backs up what I said.

Gentlemen are a dying bread and this one will not put to print what he thinks of you and your writing but all the readers can read and see that for themselves which is self evident. I rest my case and reserve comment on yourself.

As I aaid use your so called powers to help all on this thread.

If not go and vebate other non interesting text which I and many other will now ignore even better resign your position

Keep Shoogling

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Re: BA

Post by Mark R » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:55 pm

waltfos wrote:even better resign your position
Ruder and ruder.

That isn't going to happen. However, if you think the site shouldn't be edited as it currently is, then I repeat my earlier point - don't use it. If we see anyone posting here, we take that as an affirmation that they trust and respect the editing of the site.

I'm done here.
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Post by gizmo » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:04 pm

I have a Palm Stikine which I bought about 2 1/2 years ago. I have gone through 3 neck seals, had the main zip replaced and have had the fabric boots replaced with latex boots. The suit is very comfortable and performed very well early on but overall I am disappointed with it. It is now showing signs of serious delamination.

My paddling partner however has used his stikine for a similar amount of time. He is still on the original neck seal and is still delighted with his purchase. So I suppose one mans meat and all that.

Waltfos - I've read this thread through twice and still can't see what prompted your rant at Mark R. This is strange behaviour directed at your host.
Paul

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Post by PeterG » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:53 pm

Its not just the Kaikoura but all the others in this range. Even if you rinse them every trip the zips corode away: they are just not suitable for salt water and should not have been marketed for sea paddlers.

Some of our club think that Peak or Yak/Crewsaver with much more salt water expeience are the natural choice of the sea paddler and would never touch Palm. However, I have an ancient 'on tour' which is really good and has survived years of salt.

Maybe it is just one duff range, pity for the punters though, including me!

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Post by Scots_Charles_River » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:04 pm

I have a palm daytour and have used it sea caneoing and sea kayaking with also use for Laser Dinghy sailing, wettest.

No probs as it's a plastic zip.

Nick

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Just Bought A Kaikoura

Post by wideblueyonder » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:31 pm

Just picked up a Kaikoura from the new batch and confirm it has a chunky YKK plastic zip. Hopefully this will solve the issue with what seems to be a very well liked design otherwise.

(@ Waltfos - I too cannot see what prompted the outburst at Mark, saddened to see this you typing this sort of post in what I find a superb, friendly, community.)

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Post by Weesplasher » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:36 pm

Gizmo I too have read the link and I think it is inapropriate that someone should call anyone 'Indignant' especially the writers who all had common failures on their BA's. From what I read Waltfos was offering advice and help until Markr made comment without real substance. I have to offer my support here to Waltfos who offering advice and it appears from his own experiences. Others had similiar problems to Julies and as suggested a product recall which would be for all and a reasonable consideration if Palm are liable for the failures.
I myself have just started kayaking and cannot afford the expense of Palm but would take advice from people like Julia, Owen, NeilG and Allan I would even Waltfos. All mentioned do not speak highly of their experiences with Palm as a manufacturer. I have a trusted Delta no zips just velcro and see myself buying a new one just yet but from what I have read I don't think I would even consider Palm no matter how nice they look as seen at the Perth show

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Post by Mark R » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:39 pm

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Post by gizmo » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:05 pm

Weesplasher wrote:
Gizmo I too have read the link and I think it is inapropriate that someone should call anyone 'Indignant' especially the writers who all had common failures on their BA's.
Sorry I don't get your point here. I'm sure they might be indignant given the circumstances. Why is this inappropriate?

I agree that waltfos was being helpful in offering advice early on in the thread but later comments became personal attacks which in my opinion were unwarranted.
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Post by oceanscout » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:05 pm

PeterG wrote: Some of our club think that Peak or Yak/Crewsaver with much more salt water expeience are the natural choice of the sea paddler and would never touch Palm.
This is a plausible theory as crewsaver's main (read BIG) market is the sailing industry...

However, some products are better then others in different situations, i have a nokia 5500 , and i would be quite happy to drop my phone in a bucket of water and leave it there for a while...

rememeber that this is a phone from a popular high street phone company, not a specialist in "adventure phones"... i would not like to do this with my "tough adventure ready" Garmin gps unit...

so don't be suprised if one company makes a better product than another...... you have to keep an open mind about all types of products...

And before any one says that i should not have a closed mind about buying products, i chose the best equipment for the job, not one manufacturer's. Because when it hits the fan, i know i can rely on the best equipment to get me out of it...

just my 2ps worth

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Post by TerryH » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:17 pm

Just to get back to the main thread.
My Palm Kaikoura was showing the same problem even after extenisive post paddling care.
A polite phone call to Palm found them to be very helpful and I have sent back my BA to be replaced.
I have used Palm kit for many years, yes they develope thier product based on feedback, this in not the same as testing on punters.
I continue to be very happy with Palm products and thier level of customer care.
Terry

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Post by juliasixtyfive » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:49 pm

Glad we're back on topic...
and also happy to report I was notified today that a replacement plastic zipped Kaikoura is going to be mailed out to me.

I'd say that's pretty good service (and as I said before, I like the design & comfort of of the PFD a lot).


Julia

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Post by waltfos » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:45 pm

juliasixtyfive wrote:happy to report I was notified today that a replacement plastic zipped Kaikoura is going to be mailed out to me. Julia
Well done you and well done Palm

Keep shoogling

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