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Mark R
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Animated^

Post by Mark R »

Mark Rainsley
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CaptainSensible
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Post by CaptainSensible »

Very good - the 3D stuff (nice use of models + poser + line shaders/rendering!) allows you to see rolling technique from the perspective of someone/a camera underneath you, which is helpful; you can see what the levering paddle blade ought to be doing.

One thing I don't understand is why they instruct people to get into the kayak whilst facing the back deck and then twist round once in the boat during some of the rescues; I've been warned not do that by a few people because of the risk of leg/knee injuries.
Last edited by CaptainSensible on Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Sgian Dubh
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Post by Sgian Dubh »

hideous.
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MikeB
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Post by MikeB »

Rolling : screen 6 of 9 - "straighten the kayak by doing the hip flick - twist your waist and push the kayak's deck with your LEFT knee".

In the scenario outlined, it's the RIGHT knee me thinks.

Other than that I have to say I quite like it.

Mike.

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Erling
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Post by Erling »

Not bad - as a supplement.
I think I prefer 'real' videos though, like these: http://www.qajaq.no/technique.asp
The older I get, the better I used to be.

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Post by ian johnston »

Erling wrote:Not bad - as a supplement.
I think I prefer 'real' videos though, like these: http://www.qajaq.no/technique.asp
Very impressed with these video clips, what a great site. I've even learned a few Norwegian words!

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Post by YvonneB »

hideous.
why?

As a beginner who has struggled to grasp what's required to roll this has made it clearer than anything else Ive seen. It makes sense.

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naefearjustbeer
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Re: Animated

Post by naefearjustbeer »

Mark R wrote:http://kayakpaddling.net/


Whaddaya think?
I cannot get the site to work properly for me. As soon as I click on any of the links the page starts to continuously refresh itself and wont stop until I close the window.

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Post by Owen »

CaptainSensible wrote: One thing I don't understand is why they instruct people to get into the kayak whilst facing the back deck and then twist round once in the boat during some of the rescues; I've been warned not do that by a few people because of the risk of leg/knee injuries.
This is the way ("heel hook", "leg in" call it what you like) I always get back in now; by far the easiest way of doing it. I can't see how there's a risk of leg/knee injury. Try it for yourself, it's the only real way of evaluating any technique. The idea is to roll onto the back deck keeping the centre of gravity low.

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Post by fiona »

I'm having the same problem as naefear - the site just refreshes constantly, flicking between the page I'm on and the first page - it's horrendous!!

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Post by NeilG »

fiona wrote:I'm having the same problem as naefear - the site just refreshes constantly, flicking between the page I'm on and the first page - it's horrendous!!
Me too. Maybe it is a technique I am not familiar with!
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Sgian Dubh
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Post by Sgian Dubh »

YvonneB wrote:
hideous.
why?

As a beginner who has struggled to grasp what's required to roll this has made it clearer than anything else Ive seen. It makes sense.
Yes apologies Yvonne, that was more a reply aimed toward the html coding rather than the site content, which I was unable to view, having encountered the same problems as Fiona, Naefear & Neil.
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Ceegee
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Post by Ceegee »

Quote:
hideous.


why?
Hear hear, a bit harsh? It's pretty accurate, clear for beginners (and executes fine on my machine). Congratulations to Niko for taking the time to contribute something educational to the public domain and Mark for bringing it to our attention.

Steve

P.S. Erling's link is pretty good too - thanks.

P.P.S. [EDIT]: I type too slowly Sgian, and in hindsight misunderstood your comment. Cheers

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Post by MikeB »

Just had this:

Hi again Mike!
I noticed a lot of traffic from www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk and read the
comments and found yours there too.
I think I was able to find the bug that some people are complaining.
Could you be so kind and pass the following to your forum:

---------
Sorry about the continuous refresh bug. It should now be corrected. Some
might see the refresh done once, but it should not start looping.
I will try to repair the bug totally during this week.

If you had the problem, please clear your browser cache before entering
the website again. As far as I am aware, the bug only apears with some
Microsoft Internet Explorer V7 browsers.
Please email me if the problem persist and tell your browser and it's
version.

Best regards
Niko Hakkarainen / KayakPaddling.net

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Twix
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Post by Twix »

I agree about the heel hook, as long as you keep you weight low over the back of your boat it is the easiest way I have found of getting back in. I will have to try it again, but I don't think that leg muscles are strained particularly, its just an easy way to get yourself into the right position.

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Post by Jim »

I have cleared my cache and still get the constant refresh using IE6 SP1 on Win2Kpro.

I wonder if some people have misunderstood captainsensible about the getting back in facing backwards issue? When I learned to do rescues (years ago now) we realised that if the boats point the same way and the swimmer approaches from the front (always the best way for communication etc), they end up sitting at the wrong end of the cockpit and have to twirl about before they can slide in.

For me expediency is the key thing, if you can remember to present the stern to them, all well and good, but lets face it, in freezing cold water if you present the freshly emptied boat and realise the front is forward, you shouldn't muck about wasting time turning it round, get them up onto it and in ASAP.

It makes some sense to practise with stern presentations, it avoids possible unnecessary leg injury during training (not that I have ever heard of this, but I stopped coaching long ago) and should help you develop an instinct to always present the boat the best way in a real situation, but on the other hand, isn't there something to be said for getting people in the wrong way occasionally so they have some idea what they are going to do if it works out that way in a real situation? I guess it depends how laterally thinking people are, some people struggle with new concepts (like turning around whilst perched on the edge of the cockpit) whilst others can invent solutions before you even realise they are in a new situation.

Jim

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Post by YvonneB »

YvonneB wrote:
Quote:
hideous.



why?

As a beginner who has struggled to grasp what's required to roll this has made it clearer than anything else Ive seen. It makes sense.


Yes apologies Yvonne, that was more a reply aimed toward the html coding rather than the site content, which I was unable to view, having encountered the same problems as Fiona, Naefear & Neil.
_________________
No problem, just couldnt see what was bad about it, as it worked fine for my PC.

As for the heel hook, this is the method Ive been shown by a couple of coaches in the last year. Seems to me it is easier to get your bum over into the boat using the the strength of your thigh muscles braced against the cockpit rim, as opposed to the traditional method.

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Post by CaptainSensible »

The reason why I mentioned it was because I used to use a similar move in reverse (and was advised not to do it) whilst getting out of a boat (in a pool) after a capsize (possibly because I was panicking/short or breath after three or four failed setup and roll attempts). I just don't think attempting a half-body twist with your legs inside the boat is a good idea (nice way to twist a knee).

When I'm being rescued, I use the stern of my boat (whilst it is being held) and and the bow of the rescuer's boat (boats facing in opposite directions) to lift both of my feet up over the back deck and into the cockpit in one fluid movement (which was what happened the last time I was rescued in anger). This seems to be the standard rescue in our club.

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Post by MikeB »

I'd concur - the "heel hook" is by far the better way, certainly in comparison to the "between the boats" method. Notably so for the bigger paddler - which means me!

Mike.

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Post by Owen »

Captain,
http://www.qajaq.no/technique.asp?id=1
If you look at this video it's much easier than the between the boat method. The man's leg isn't restricted in anyway so there's little chance of twisting.

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Post by CaptainSensible »

It does look better/easier (and very safe) on the vid, thanks - in the animation, the rescuee uses a different technique/movement and ends up rotating both legs inside the boat where the rescuee in the video manages to the entire rotation before putting their other leg back into the cockpit.

Will try it next time I'm in the pool.

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Post by NeilG »

Have got it working now (don't know why it didn't first time). The roll animation doesn't work for me. The rest is very good. Clever stuff.
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Post by peakfreak »

Sgian Dubh wrote: Yes apologies Yvonne, that was more a reply aimed toward the html coding rather than the site content, which I was unable to view, having encountered the same problems as Fiona, Naefear & Neil.
Whats wrong with the coding? :-s

The site is very useful and for flash it seems reasonably lightwieght. A few clearer instructions on what to do regards operation would enhance it further but other than that it is pretty solid.

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